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10.8V now 12V worldwide

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kornomaniac    466
1 hour ago, dwain said:

^^ I also LOVE the FV saw. It is surprising to me that the 18x2 saw from Makita isn't comparable in runtime, but then again the original version isn't brushless is it?

 

Brushed indeed.

 

They should get a move on and put a brushless motor in there.

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kornomaniac    466
2 hours ago, comp56 said:

super semi conductors .....just throwing that out there.....

 

Is there any information yet of those will really be a thing for power tool batteries ? :)

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Framer joe    455

I follow the logic , but in practical terms , two batteries from two different companies both having 162wh of energy ..Do not produce the same amount of cuts, Do not rip the same linear ft of stock....the whole engineer degree thing is great, excellent accomplishment..i am proud of you, I don't have one,but I correct the engineers that set plans for the houses I frame, school of hard knocks, masters degree.....that's all I know battery A  162wh ...battery B 172wh ...Do Not Cut Or Rip the same amount of lumber, not even close

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Jronman    828

 

On 8/22/2017 at 6:43 PM, dwain said:

Everything else is marketing bullshit.

 

On 8/22/2017 at 6:54 PM, HiltiWpg said:

It's idiotic that they can get get away with blatant misleading advertising.
 

 

could say the same for 2x lumber right? Force it to be called 1-1/2"x 

Did I hear that m12 was actually 12v and not 12v max or could I be mistaken?

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Pouet    17
On 9/11/2017 at 3:26 AM, Stercorarius said:

 

Yes I am just an angry a-hole.

So mileage is the right word then? Not distance?

 

And no less current doesn't mean less resistance at all. The resistance will stay the same. It is a fixed variable.

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dwain    790
On 9/13/2017 at 3:03 AM, Framer joe said:

I follow the logic , but in practical terms , two batteries from two different companies both having 162wh of energy ..Do not produce the same amount of cuts, Do not rip the same linear ft of stock....t

 

The tools themselves have different motors and different efficiency. so you will always get a different results. If you had two identical tools, that were wired for different brand batteries, THEN you might get the same amount of runtime.

 

If companies REALLY wanted to inform consumers about their batteries, not only would they tell us the accurate Wh of the battery but also the rated output current of the cells. BUT that's unfortunately not the world we live in ... :lol:

 

 

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dwain    790
7 hours ago, Jronman said:

could say the same for 2x lumber right? Force it to be called 1-1/2"x 

Did I hear that m12 was actually 12v and not 12v max or could I be mistaken?

 

I think it would be better if the lumber were more accurately described, but hopefully there the industry is at least consistent in it's inaccuracy ;):P

 

M12, like all other '12V' lines is actually 10.8V. 3 cells at 3.6V each. Or '12V Max' ;)

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Framer joe    455

Lumber and trim stock,lvl stock, parralam stock,,,all stock is differently measured...there is only a standard for a type of material....one must know what they are buying,.   Again it goes to Not dumbing down the world,but instead educate yourself.. @dwain.not you per say...but people...

.       is the same for welfare, stop giving handouts and force people to work ...there are plenty of jobs always,just people choose not to do them...help yourself,help your neighbor,family,church....but don't tax me to do it,,,,,people are inherently helpful and generous, .......the USA is a gracious,giving,country which helps everyone worldwide..the people will rally together in time of need ,crisis or war....just don't force us, we will do it anyway......

.    as in don't dumb it down,don't standardize,education is the key

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Jronman    828

framing lumber is actually milled to 2x before the drying process but after it is dried it shrinks to around 1-1/2x but in a way 2x is still correct. One could say 20v in a way is correct. At one point in time the nominal was the actual.

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dwain    790

I thought it was rough cut to 2x in days past, then finished to 1-1/2....

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Framer joe    455

The spruce lumber is cut say 2x 4 then kiln dried resulting in 1.5x3.5 but pressure treated stock is 1.625 to 1.75 wide...engineered lumber is 11 7/8" for a 2x12 which measures 11.25 kd.......a 1x 8  measures 3/4x7.25 ....not even close to 1x8....

.     there are no standards, .....again it's all about education, research, not making everything to a standard for the lowest iq to understand......that's my only point..

.   respect your opinion, I always love to learn new things...

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KnarlyCarl    5,003

Definitely a fan of real world testing. You guys are getting all technical and attempting in depth analysis and blah blah but these tools were meant for working and doing a task. The only true reality is putting them to the actual task they were made for, and the variable will always be the end user. Which is why I'll always take input from people like framer Joe over the garage guys that have controlled environments which is a joke. Tool box buzz puts all this time and energy into setting up their pretty little cut stations for the recip saw comparison and circ saw testing.... It's fun, but useless. Give me your real world application testing. The tests are cute and entertaining, but I take them mostly with a grain of salt.... So many variables out there, enough of the numbers and paper figures, get out and put them to use!

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rrich1    1,715
Definitely a fan of real world testing. You guys are getting all technical and attempting in depth analysis and blah blah but these tools were meant for working and doing a task. The only true reality is putting them to the actual task they were made for, and the variable will always be the end user. Which is why I'll always take input from people like framer Joe over the garage guys that have controlled environments which is a joke. Tool box buzz puts all this time and energy into setting up their pretty little cut stations for the recip saw comparison and circ saw testing.... It's fun, but useless. Give me your real world application testing. The tests are cute and entertaining, but I take them mostly with a grain of salt.... So many variables out there, enough of the numbers and paper figures, get out and put them to use!
I don't get it. Let's just take a circular saw for example. It has one job and that is to cut something. The tests put on by tool box buzz for example are the same people who actually use them day in and day out. Rob has a company with the same people. In the tests they are replicating that tools one job. So how can they not be accurate? Or show the ballpark range of the tools capabilities? I take their testing over what a manufacturer says any day of the week because they or anyone else actually shows the tool in use. I dont see any difference verses someone taking a camera to a job site and following them for a day.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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D W    132

Tool reviews are really lacking on how the tools perform over the long term (or even more than just a few hours use). Basically they never say anything about it, and I understand it's something that can't really be done.

 

It's a shame, a tool might come 1st place in performance/features but might be the first one to fail after 12 months. It's declared the winner and we all go out and buy it. 

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kornomaniac    466
23 hours ago, KnarlyCarl said:

Definitely a fan of real world testing. You guys are getting all technical and attempting in depth analysis and blah blah but these tools were meant for working and doing a task. The only true reality is putting them to the actual task they were made for, and the variable will always be the end user. Which is why I'll always take input from people like framer Joe over the garage guys that have controlled environments which is a joke. Tool box buzz puts all this time and energy into setting up their pretty little cut stations for the recip saw comparison and circ saw testing.... It's fun, but useless. Give me your real world application testing. The tests are cute and entertaining, but I take them mostly with a grain of salt.... So many variables out there, enough of the numbers and paper figures, get out and put them to use!

Completly disagree on that point.

 

It's the variables in real life use that makes any input like for example, framer Joe, completly useless to me. He is very explicit in claiming that the flexvolt has a longer runtime then his crews using the Makita. Yet this week alone 2 people in the Makita talk group on Facebook have purchased  X2 Makita saws to replace their flexvolt  because of lack of runtime.

 

You know what this means ? Personal testing is flawed and based on too many variables ( and a good dose of fan boying).  Neither framer Joe nor those 2 guys in the Makita talk group have probably done a fair comparison and their views are flawed because of variables introduced on their real life work and experience.

 

Only a controlled environment ( with a selection of different tests ) gives us a fair comparison in my opinion.

 

 

 

But that's just my opinion ! Too each his own ! :)

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dwain    790

Ask a tradie how to best use the tool, and what features are most important.

 

Ask an independent reviewer how the different brands stack up against each other, and what the latest and greatest is.

 

Ask God which ones are most likely to last in the long run.

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KnarlyCarl    5,003

A controlled environment is the worst at giving me a real world test and feel. That's what the tool is made for after all, real world use!! Like with Rob and the crew, give me input from their actual use on a job site as they were designed and forego the mock trials.  I still think it's entertaining but it never convinces me one way or another which tool to purchase if I were in the market.  

That was a great way to put it Dwain, I do love hearing comparisons and features and the latest and greatest. I know you guys like your run time tests (or maybe not!!!) and maybe others do too. The thing I observed was a concentration into using the tool to drill, cut, grind, etc.... Whereas  real world use doesn't give you 100% concentration on that tool, leading to different experiences with whoever is using it. And I love getting that input. Candid, spontaneous, solid info 

I don't know what Joe observed between the DeWalt and the Makita saws, nor do we know the exact circumstances of the two on Facebook. And yes, their views are just that based on their uses. Maybe we could get a better picture if we knew lumber type, moisture content, how many cuts were beveled, etc etc we could go on all day. I like the input of The end users of these items and make my decision based on that sometimes, but we don't regularly have input from these heavy users. 

Honestly I would love to see Dan and Eric ramp up their involvement into the fields that these tools are made for and get true unbiased input from them. It's cool they bring us the info, but I think they could do something unique by getting out there and allowing the pros to use them more. Like they do with Pat at the body shop etc... (Dwain and Mike, can you do a Oz version perhaps!!???) 

Although it's just the tool nuts that care as much as we do anyways lol...

 

Although, I do have it easy when it comes to cordless tools. Who makes a cordless PVC shears and a PEX expander tool and a copper tubing cutter and a palm nailer and a lot of the tools for my trade? Easy decision there..... :lol:

 

 

 

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dwain    790

we are sometimes able to put tools into professional hands, but not that much. Plus the time it takes to organise and do that makes them much less viable at our size...

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Makita_2233    30
On 18/09/2017 at 7:41 PM, D W said:

Tool reviews are really lacking on how the tools perform over the long term (or even more than just a few hours use). Basically they never say anything about it, and I understand it's something that can't really be done.

 

It's a shame, a tool might come 1st place in performance/features but might be the first one to fail after 12 months. It's declared the winner and we all go out and buy it. 

Couldn't agree more. One good example of this I was thinking about the other week. I had 2 in my workshop, both approximately 2 years old, one of them gearbox blew up and the other just stopped working. I've got a Bosch 5" that's around 4 years old and it hasn't missed a beat. Over the passed 15 years I've used a mix of Bosch and metabo grinders it seems Bosch last longer. One thing I've noticed you get a lot of these box opener tool reviewer that get sent sample metabo grinders, use them for a few hours and say they are the best on the market 

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kornomaniac    466

Well testing tool durability would be extremely hard and costly to do for reviewers wouldn't it ? It would take hundreds of hours of simulated work to get an idea on durability. There is no way anyone has the time for that.

 

Every brand/tool also has a lemon now and then. If a reviewer would be testing a tool for durability and it breaks down after 10 hours. Will he declare the tool to be a POS ? To be factual he would have to get a second model, a third model, etc... And use them all for thesame time to check if he had a lemon the first time or the tool has a durability problem.

 

Would be the best option if reviews could incorporate durability but don't see how that could realistically done :(

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