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D W

10.8V now 12V worldwide

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D W    132

This is kind of old-ish news but I just came across a press release from January 2017. All Bosch 10.8V will be marketed as 12V worldwide. 

 

http://www.bosch-pt.com.au/au/en/professional/news-promos/from-10.8v-to-12v/from-10.8v-to-12v.html

 

And the updated model numbers:

https://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/service/news/changeover-from-10.8v-to-12v/faq_11.html

 

 

 

This might be the reason behind the clearance (and now harder to find) 10.8V range in Australia. I was starting to worry about its future here. 

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DR99    2,089

Hrmm, surprised they were able to change the voltage most countries besides the USA are not cool with "max" voltage ratings for tools.

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D W    132
3 minutes ago, DR99 said:

Hrmm, surprised they were able to change the voltage most countries besides the USA are not cool with "max" voltage ratings for tools.

 

I thought the same. They must have changed their mind.

(from the bottom of the first article):

 

"Previously EPTA (European Power Tools Association) accepted only the 10.8V statement, but now 12V is also officially accepted. To align with EPTA, Bosch Professional will adapt its voltage class communication accordingly."

 

 

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dwain    790

Should be the other way around. Worldwide, all should be forced to market nominal voltage. 10.8V, 18V, 21.6V, 36V, 50.4V, 54V, 72V. Multiples of 3.6V.

 

Everything else is marketing bullshit.

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HiltiWpg    511
Should be the other way around. Worldwide, all should be forced to market nominal voltage. 10.8V, 18V, 21.6V, 36V, 50.4V, 54V, 72V. Multiples of 3.6V.
 
Everything else is marketing bullshit.

100% agreed.

It's idiotic that they can get get away with blatant misleading advertising.


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dwain    790

Sometimes batteries even claim their total size (Watt hours) by multiplying the Ah and the MAX Voltage!!!! That is even worse.

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Makita_2233    30
On 23/08/2017 at 10:46 AM, dwain said:

Sometimes batteries even claim their total size (Watt hours) by multiplying the Ah and the MAX Voltage!!!! That is even worse.

Really ? Anyone with half brain can understand the meaning of MAX and work out the correct watt hours. Explain why it is bullshit marketing? 

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dwain    790
11 hours ago, Makita_2233 said:

Really ? Anyone with half brain can understand the meaning of MAX and work out the correct watt hours. Explain why it is bullshit marketing? 

 

Many people don't understand that 20V MAX is actually the same as 18V nominal. For those that do, they realise it's probably the same stuff.

 

But Watt Hours is a measure of total juice / gas tank / volume. There's no MAX volume and nominal volume, the amount of Wh in the battery is found by multiplying nominal voltage by the Ah.

 

It's deceptive because 20V Max x 5Ah = 100 Wh is bullshit. It actually has 18V x 5Ah = 90Wh. 

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Makita_2233    30
1 hour ago, dwain said:

 

Many people don't understand that 20V MAX is actually the same as 18V nominal. For those that do, they realise it's probably the same stuff.

 

But Watt Hours is a measure of total juice / gas tank / volume. There's no MAX volume and nominal volume, the amount of Wh in the battery is found by multiplying nominal voltage by the Ah.

 

It's deceptive because 20V Max x 5Ah = 100 Wh is bullshit. It actually has 18V x 5Ah = 90Wh. 

It's not descriptive if you multiple a few numbers. Yes agree they should put the actual watts hours regardless of the max branding. Dewalt in North America branded slide 18v as 20v max cause they couldn't swollew their pride. They said they would never change battery style from the old 18v xrp pod style, So they needed to come up with a new name. Yes pretty dumb idea as the rest of the world didn't have problems changing. Unknown why they did the same with flexvolt, calling it 60v max, probably cause it sounds better haha 

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dwain    790
53 minutes ago, Makita_2233 said:

It's not descriptive if you multiple a few numbers.

 

huh?

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Framer joe    455

I'm for Not dumbing down the world,,, stop making everything idiot proof. Stop giving everyone a prize when they didn't win...Stop the madness....read and understand what your buying before you use it........you understand a quarter pounder isn't really a quarter pound ? Your car isn't really going to get the mpg on the sticker ? It's not bull ...it's called reality......you complain about the marketing but you get free tools to review, ... @dwain....let's not adopt any European standard, Britain choose the same thing to not adopt there rules.....I'd take any USA made tool over any other country, just wish more were made here.......

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dwain    790
3 hours ago, Framer joe said:

you complain about the marketing but you get free tools to review, ... @dwain....let's not adopt any European standard, Britain choose the same thing to not adopt there rules.....I'd take any USA made tool over any other country, just wish more were made here.......

 

I don't see what that has to do with anything. I've been on this forum contributing and expressing my opinions long before I started getting sent free tools. BTW, I may not have to buy them, but are they actually free when you have to put 6 hours into a review for them? I take a day off each week from my normal job to review tools, and often make less money on the tool day.

 

One of the main reasons I review tool (apart from a love of them) is because I enjoy helping people understand them, and make informed choices (or just decide on a favorite). So yes, I will always be for forcing manufacturers to advertise their products accurately and in line with the rest of the industry.

 

When you buy 5 quarts of oil (or Litres here), you expect 5 quarts don't you? I know I do. I'd be pissed if Castrol and Mobil decided to start selling 4.2 quarts of oil as 5 quarts...

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Framer joe    455

I love your opinion didn't agree but respect it..... @dwain ..merely saying I don't like everything dumbed down to the lowest level , so mr idiot can figure it out.......and No 6hr reviewing a tool isn't earning a 600$ tool.....I do appreciate your channel, because I like all points of view, it's helps us make decisions based on many different reviews...

       ..also by "in line with the rest of the industry " again you mean Europe, because everyone here does the same thing.. ..5qt is 5qt...20v max is 20v max ..doesn't mean anything else,...keep up the reviews ! :)

     

      

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dwain    790

Cheers Joe.

I was referring to the fact that:

18v branding: Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, Dewalt (outside US), Hitachi, Ridgid

20v max branding: Dewalt (US), Black and Decker, Porter Cable.

10.8v branding: Dewalt (outside US), Bosch (until recently outside US)

12V branding: everyone else.

Same goes for higher
Voltages with OPE. It's all over the shop.


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Framer joe    455

 Milwaukee 12v Makita 12v Bosch 12v ( just switched) ....sounds like Dewalt bashing  when everyone including Bosch claim 12v,...I know what all the companies do , I get it ......you want everyone to claim actual voltage, I get it...I'm saying market it as long as it's the truth,. Which 20v max is the truth,.   

      Point is where does it stop ?  Milwaukee claims all kind of shit over a Dewalt tool and vise versa.. all companies claim this and that over other brands.  It's ALL misleading.....I don't remember you posting something about Milwaukees claims when Flexvolt came out , Milwaukee comparing their 9ah against the flex 6ah a full page ad and video...complete bull...

.       I don't want to belabor this but I believe Dewalt has the most honest ads and comparisons.....watch nps17 ...the brands they compete against are in plain view for all to see, ,while Milwaukee paints every competitor grey, watch Milwaukee drop a CINDER block on Dewalts lowest line of tough system boxes.....

.     I'm with you, I wish life was different. People were honest. There was no welfare, Companies had our best interest at heart, I can say some companies do care....Trusty Cook dead blow hammers,made in the USA ..Wright tools made in the USA ,.  ..there out there.......but I don't want a socialist country, everyone doesn't deserve a home, everything is not equal, some people Do work harder and deserve more.......I wish Bosch had all there tools here.  That sucks..it's business ..I get it.....

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kornomaniac    466
7 hours ago, Framer joe said:

I don't remember you posting something about Milwaukees claims when Flexvolt came out , Milwaukee comparing their 9ah against the flex 6ah a full page ad and video...complete bull...

.      

I took that full page ad and made it better !! Added Makita X2. Whipping both flexvolt and milwaukee !!

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D W    132

I can't wait to see Hitachi X2 with those new 36V batteries. If it is a thing anyway

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dwain    790

oh I have been to Dewalt and NPS and Metabo events. I've heard it all, and I'm a bit tired of marketing some days ;) I don't hold Dewalt any lower or higher than anyone else. And yes, 20V Max is just as honest (actually more) than anyone claiming 12V.

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Framer joe    455

@kornomaniac love your passion for tools but ,.  Makita x2 doesn't beat anything Dewalt, as a matter of fact Dewalt just put Makita back to the drawing board with their new rear handle saw.....even the flex circ saw had Makita x2 rear handle beat or tied.....Makita is a great company,very innovative. Hundreds of tools, ..but only one thing bad about them....they're not ...Dewalt!!!!

.     

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kornomaniac    466
6 hours ago, Framer joe said:

@kornomaniac love your passion for tools but ,.  Makita x2 doesn't beat anything Dewalt, as a matter of fact Dewalt just put Makita back to the drawing board with their new rear handle saw.....even the flex circ saw had Makita x2 rear handle beat or tied.....Makita is a great company,very innovative. Hundreds of tools, ..but only one thing bad about them....they're not ...Dewalt!!!!

.     

Let's not start fanboying now :) Makita X2  recipe saw is more powerfull then the flexvolt.  Makita rear handle saw is more powerfull then the normal flexvolt.

 

Flexvolt rear handle saw outdid the Makita.

 

 As always  power and runtime are linked too eachother. Make a tool more powerfull and you'll limit runtime. Go for extended runtimes and you'll lack power's because batteries only have so much energy that needs to be distributed between either power or runtime. And a dual 18v Makita setup has a Max energy of 216 watt hours of energy( to be used  as power or runtime) while a flexvolt setup stops at 168 watt hours ( with the flexvolt 54v/3 amp battery or 18v nominal 9 amp. However you prefer to call it.) 

 

The efficiency of going 56v instead of 36 volt does not make up for the fact of Makita having about 30% more energy in their battery setup

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Framer joe    455

Efficiency in this case is on Dewalts side,,,first I am a fan ,heavily invested , but have all brands...I'm dropping a "g" on Bosch 12v line up, my friend has them and Damn they're small and powerful and unbelievabe quality(the new 12v planer and router sold me on them) and the Makita rear handle is Not as powerful as the reg ...flex circ saw,. Check out you tube,,,,also runtime is great but if the tool won't do the task at hand who cares how long it runs.......check out Dewalts ads,,,you will see the same claim your spouting from Milwaukee.   But proven wrong, the flex 9/3ah on the 60/54 v tool ,out cuts all competitors...a powerful efficient motor takes less ,energy, to make the same cut as a inferior motor burning up the "gas" to make the same cut...

.       ....I run two crews, one uses Makita everything, corded and cordless if Makita makes it ,they have it,.     We use all Dewalt, I see it everyday,. ,,had the same debate with Bremon...Makita came in third ..in many tests......it's a great brand, great tools, I think the batteries suck,but do charge fast.......I'm not bashing Makita, it's great if your in, you can't go wrong with that company...

.       ...I like the direction Dewalt is taking as far as power, wish they had more 60v/120v tools,,but I'm sure they'll come...I love all Dewalt batteries, they last forever and take a beating,even the "XRP" are great.....

.       .....Makita makes all other companies bring their "A" game , they are very innovative...and First on many tools...I liking them to Dodge...dodge changed the truck world with their new hood and high wheel wells...,the minivan...muscle cars...a very innovative company, but not the best of the big three......I'd say your a ...fanboy of Makita ?   :) 

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kornomaniac    466
4 hours ago, Framer joe said:

Efficiency in this case is on Dewalts side,,,first I am a fan ,heavily invested , but have all brands...I'm dropping a "g" on Bosch 12v line up, my friend has them and Damn they're small and powerful and unbelievabe quality(the new 12v planer and router sold me on them) and the Makita rear handle is Not as powerful as the reg ...flex circ saw,. Check out you tube,,,,also runtime is great but if the tool won't do the task at hand who cares how long it runs.......check out Dewalts ads,,,you will see the same claim your spouting from Milwaukee.   But proven wrong, the flex 9/3ah on the 60/54 v tool ,out cuts all competitors...a powerful efficient motor takes less ,energy, to make the same cut as a inferior motor burning up the "gas" to make the same cut...

.       ....I run two crews, one uses Makita everything, corded and cordless if Makita makes it ,they have it,.     We use all Dewalt, I see it everyday,. ,,had the same debate with Bremon...Makita came in third ..in many tests......it's a great brand, great tools, I think the batteries suck,but do charge fast.......I'm not bashing Makita, it's great if your in, you can't go wrong with that company...

.       ...I like the direction Dewalt is taking as far as power, wish they had more 60v/120v tools,,but I'm sure they'll come...I love all Dewalt batteries, they last forever and take a beating,even the "XRP" are great.....

.       .....Makita makes all other companies bring their "A" game , they are very innovative...and First on many tools...I liking them to Dodge...dodge changed the truck world with their new hood and high wheel wells...,the minivan...muscle cars...a very innovative company, but not the best of the big three......I'd say your a ...fanboy of Makita ?   :) 

Indeed ! 

 

Now I'm not going to search YouTube for your proof really ;)

 

Here's a good read: 

https://www.protoolreviews.com/buying-guides/best-cordless-circular-saw-shootout/30463/

 

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Framer joe    455

Again, protool reviews said the same thing when the Makita rear came out. But real world tests all over you tube show the Flexvolt as more powerful and more cuts....the guy using the saw is the subjective part...of course pro tool reviews has two guys. Neither of which are contractors or framers,but instead two review hacks paid by manufacturers to review tools.........

.        ...  (.6) loss by the Flexvolt ,really? ..both were tie in all tests...again Makita hit a homerun with the ..rearhandle saw...great saw and I'll say it again ,,one of the most innovative companies, can't go wrong with them....

.       ...also love how these reviewers have test before Dewalt releases their new tools, happens every time..........I use Makita tools everyday at work framing along with Dewalt..................one note: Dewalt designs their tools to be used with their accessories. Not a random blade chosen...it Does make a huge difference in speed and cuts, just as when you use a certain bit on an sds hammer ,,,completely different result.....no other manufacturer does this...Dewalt is a system ,not just a tool,.     .....have a great day ! Love your Makita passion, ! 

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