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pcsparx

60V max vs 54V XR

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pcsparx    1

hi guys,

 

In NZ we have the 54V XR flexvolt tools compared to the american 60V max flexvolt tools.

One tool that we can't buy here is the flexvolt stud and joist drill.

So my question is if I were to have NZ authorised 54V XR flex volt batteries could i buy the american 60V max stud and joist drill bare tool from a parallel importer and use my 54V XR batteries to power it 

 

cheers 

54V Flexvolt 9.0.jpg

60V max flexvolt 9.0.jpg

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zinzander    20

Literally the only difference 

1 hour ago, pcsparx said:

hi guys,

 

In NZ we have the 54V XR flexvolt tools compared to the american 60V max flexvolt tools.

One tool that we can't buy here is the flexvolt stud and joist drill.

So my question is if I were to have NZ authorised 54V XR flex volt batteries could i buy the american 60V max stud and joist drill bare tool from a parallel importer and use my 54V XR batteries to power it 

 

cheers 

54V Flexvolt 9.0.jpg

60V max flexvolt 9.0.jpg

literally the only difference is the sticker. The 54v battery can read up to 60v (max) on a voltmeter when fully charged and not under load. In reality it is just a 54v battery with some marketing b.s. In New Zealand and many other countries I.e. the UK, Australia etc there are laws which prevent companies making statements with the intention of misleading or which are likely to mislead, it is under the Fair Trading Act. Although saying 60v (max) 20v (max) is truthful by the exact wording, it is a statement that is made to try to manipulate the labeling to differentiate the product from competitors and create a false impression of being more powerful tool, for example a 20v max being more powerful than an 18v tool when in fact it is the same.  Outside the state's it is quite possibly illegal (the specific case hasnt been tested in court) to label their tools 60v max as it is an attempt to create a false impression to the consumer. Anyway mix and match to your hearts content they are exactly the same tools with a different sticker. I

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Framer joe    455

Zinzan..all companies label tools in that way,  same as Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, Dewalt....In Dewalts case they labeled the new line of tools 20v max to differentiate between its older line and the new tools....also it IS labeled 20v MAX ...max as in maximum voltage.............if any customer buys a 20v or 60v tool thinking that is the usable voltage....They Should Not Be Using The Tool......same as a 12v tool is not 12v ........this a very old debate from Dewalt haters  when everyone does it...do your due diligence when buying a tool........personally I read everything , watch reviews, and ask for advice on this very forum, before I make a big purchase.....

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zinzander    20
7 hours ago, Framer joe said:

Zinzan..all companies label tools in that way,  same as Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, Dewalt....In Dewalts case they labeled the new line of tools 20v max to differentiate between its older line and the new tools....also it IS labeled 20v MAX ...max as in maximum voltage.............if any customer buys a 20v or 60v tool thinking that is the usable voltage....They Should Not Be Using The Tool......same as a 12v tool is not 12v ........this a very old debate from Dewalt haters  when everyone does it...do your due diligence when buying a tool........personally I read everything , watch reviews, and ask for advice on this very forum, before I make a big purchase.....

I'm the same, but I have read people asking questions like 'are 20v better than 18v volt better than 18v (insert different brand) so there are some people that do get confused and even the question above points to that confusion. I personally find the nee dewalt cordless tools exceptionally reliable, (apart from 2 chargers, 1 was definitely my fault) I have never had a dewalt tool break. That being said there R & D, or lack of at some times in the past (which I strongly suspect was driven in part by short term profit maximisation) has driven me very close to switching cordless brands and almost killed the brand in NZ. People had the choice of nicd dewalt vs lithium Makita, Hitachi Bosch etc for many years and Dewalt got a reputation for extreme underperformance and  unreliability, many people and some shops won't touch it anymore. They seem to be on a better track now though. Don't worry I exalt the virtues of the tools now days but the corporate management (largely) in the past has been questionable. That is pretty off topic lol

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Jronman    828

actual voltage, amps, watt hours, and cells are what matter

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Grumpy MSG    183
11 hours ago, Framer joe said:

Zinzan..all companies label tools in that way,  same as Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, Dewalt....In Dewalts case they labeled the new line of tools 20v max to differentiate between its older line and the new tools....also it IS labeled 20v MAX ...max as in maximum voltage.............if any customer buys a 20v or 60v tool thinking that is the usable voltage....They Should Not Be Using The Tool......same as a 12v tool is not 12v ........this a very old debate from Dewalt haters  when everyone does it...do your due diligence when buying a tool........personally I read everything , watch reviews, and ask for advice on this very forum, before I make a big purchase.....

To expand on it a little, Bosch is a company that had a larger presence in the US a few years back and had a problem when they switched battery pack designs and had some problems with the change over. They went from an insert type battery (Like the older 18 volt DeWALT line to a slide on pack (Like the 20Volt MAX DeWALT line) and had a horrible transition due to the marketing and markings. folks would go to purchase additional batteries and end up with making 2 trips to the store to get the correct batteries. Throw in the fact that at some point, some stores had old batteries and tools, while others had the newer batteries and tools. 

 

DeWALT chose to make it much simpler, just leaving the old marked as 18 and the new marked as 20 which made it much easier to not screw up when sending someone with almost zero knowledge to go get a tool or battery at Lowe's, Home Depot or any other store for that matter. Given some of the discussions on here now about various battery platforms , I can just imagine how crazy it would have been on here if TIA had existed then.

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pcsparx    1

cheers guys, good to know, it is real confusing down here in NZ when it comes to DeWalt tools especially when you see a tool come out in the US but never makes it down under, (stud and joist drill etc) like whats up with that, surely it can't be that hard to slap a different sticker on it and bundle it up with a 230V charger at least then we wouldn't be put in a position to go buy parallel imported tools with no legitimate DeWalt warranty, especially when we've already bought into the battery platform.

 

Sometimes i think if I knew a year ago what I know now I may have joined team red, but who knows things might change in the future

 

come on Team Yellow! Sort it Out!!! 

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Makita_2233    30
16 hours ago, zinzander said:

Literally the only difference 

literally the only difference is the sticker. The 54v battery can read up to 60v (max) on a voltmeter when fully charged and not under load. In reality it is just a 54v battery with some marketing b.s. In New Zealand and many other countries I.e. the UK, Australia etc there are laws which prevent companies making statements with the intention of misleading or which are likely to mislead, it is under the Fair Trading Act. Although saying 60v (max) 20v (max) is truthful by the exact wording, it is a statement that is made to try to manipulate the labeling to differentiate the product from competitors and create a false impression of being more powerful tool, for example a 20v max being more powerful than an 18v tool when in fact it is the same.  Outside the state's it is quite possibly illegal (the specific case hasnt been tested in court) to label their tools 60v max as it is an attempt to create a false impression to the consumer. Anyway mix and match to your hearts content they are exactly the same tools with a different sticker. I

If that was the case why in Australia is makita's 10.8v slide called 12v max ? M12, it's also 10.8v. It's far from misleading if you understand the word max and what it means. 

 

Dewalt in North America couldn't swallow their pride, they said they would never change the battery style back in the old xpr pod style days. They had to come up with a new name hence the 20v max branding. FV just followed on with the same MAX branding 

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Tug    130
On 02/09/2017 at 2:07 PM, Framer joe said:

Zinzan..all companies label tools in that way,  same as Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, Dewalt....In Dewalts case they labeled the new line of tools 20v max to differentiate between its older line and the new tools....also it IS labeled 20v MAX ...max as in maximum voltage.............if any customer buys a 20v or 60v tool thinking that is the usable voltage....They Should Not Be Using The Tool......same as a 12v tool is not 12v ........this a very old debate from Dewalt haters  when everyone does it...do your due diligence when buying a tool........personally I read everything , watch reviews, and ask for advice on this very forum, before I make a big purchase.....

 

Very easy for you to say, but nearly all of the non-electrical tradies I know have no electrical knowledge AT ALL! It's worrying at times, considering the amount of 240 Volt power that's used on smaller sites. 

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Framer joe    455

@Tug, ,goes back to what I said...learn about a tool ,a trade, a job, a project , before using or doing it...........I'm old school ,and don't have an ego,so I ASK QUESTIONS..I research everything before I buy anything......it may take me a month before I buy a refrigerator. 2 -3 months to buy a truck...it took me 3 years to draw a plan and get quotes to build 2500sq ft house for 70k .........don't just grab a tool and use it, that how you do get hurt.....

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Tug    130
51 minutes ago, Framer joe said:

@Tug, ,goes back to what I said...learn about a tool ,a trade, a job, a project , before using or doing it...........I'm old school ,and don't have an ego,so I ASK QUESTIONS..I research everything before I buy anything......it may take me a month before I buy a refrigerator. 2 -3 months to buy a truck...it took me 3 years to draw a plan and get quotes to build 2500sq ft house for 70k .........don't just grab a tool and use it, that how you do get hurt.....

 

I wasn't having a go, just pointing out how little electrical knowledge some people have. I guess it's understandable, plenty of subjects I'd have little knowledge of. 

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Jronman    828
3 hours ago, Framer joe said:

@Tug, ,goes back to what I said...learn about a tool ,a trade, a job, a project , before using or doing it...........I'm old school ,and don't have an ego,so I ASK QUESTIONS..I research everything before I buy anything......it may take me a month before I buy a refrigerator. 2 -3 months to buy a truck...it took me 3 years to draw a plan and get quotes to build 2500sq ft house for 70k .........don't just grab a tool and use it, that how you do get hurt.....

I'm similar and only 22 years old. I tend to spend a fair bit of time researching before making purchases. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it pays off but I continue to do it cause I know in many cases it does.

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Framer joe    455

It always pays off to do your research. I've been running framing crews since I was 20...no one showed me how to read plans,layout rafters,stairs,,complex basterd hips......I stayed after work and measured them,(rafters stairs,etc.) on my own time.. wrote in a notebook,,,read the "little blue book" ...practiced on scrap wood......  @Jronman your a curious , insightful guy...always research.....I think you'll be a great in the construction world...

      Remember no one gives you anything in this world , if you want it go get it....failure is only in not trying.....asking questions and doing research is always a good practice.....

.

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Stercorarius    2,496

I'm younger than all of you guys, but the only thing I gotta say is that just as important as asking questions, probably even more important, is knowing who to ask and who not to ask. Bad advise is worse than no advise. 

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Grumpy MSG    183
3 hours ago, Stercorarius said:

I'm younger than all of you guys, but the only thing I gotta say is that just as important as asking questions, probably even more important, is knowing who to ask and who not to ask. Bad advise is worse than no advise. 

Sound advice! Along the way through life you will find some folks who are incapable of uttering the magical words "I don't know" for fear of being branded as stupid. They may have a field of knowledge they know well like small engines/ lawn mowers, but don't know anything about generators/ inverters and are afraid to pick up a shop manual to get it right.

 

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Framer joe    455

I'd say this about advice and asking the right people.......I d rather have a guy make mistakes with bad advice and learn from it then to do nothing.......doing nothing changes nothing,,,,bosses want " go getters" ......big money isn't made with your hands, it's with your head...knowledge is powerful...

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Stercorarius    2,496
58 minutes ago, Framer joe said:

I'd say this about advice and asking the right people.......I d rather have a guy make mistakes with bad advice and learn from it then to do nothing.......doing nothing changes nothing,,,,bosses want " go getters" ......big money isn't made with your hands, it's with your head...knowledge is powerful...

True most of the time. There's some exceptions though. Last season we had a windrower go down. First guy to fix it called a Deere  dealership parts department and they told him to put it together this way because that's what the diagram shows. Three hours in boom $300 in damage and six hours down time plus four hours labor. Second guy who fixes it does the exact same thing. Another $300 in damage and more down time. I think they did this three times. They call me in as a fresh set of eyes. I was just an operator at the time, if it was now I would have been the first one to make a call on the machine. Instead of calling a parts counter or looking at the diagram they printed out for us or listening to the two guys who had already tried to fix it I looked at the other machines and put it back the way the other ones were. 600 machine hours later no problems with that part. Parts diagram showed all of the available shim sizes stacked up on the assembly for the sake of getting part numbers so they bought all the shims available, put them all on and it was interfering with another part. Put the one right shim and it's gold. 

When bad advice is expensive I would much rather have my guys not listen to it and not learn from it than be stuck with a couple thousand dollar bill. Like guys saying oh yeah hy-tran works in all loader transmissions, that advice is about to lose us a tranny that they don't manufacture even parts for anymore. 

Had an interstate shut down for four hours both directions when a truck rolled on bridge across both lanes because the driver had been told he could pull the corner at 70. 

Learning from your mistakes is a great way to learn and I like the kind of people who are willing to do something. I guess the real issue is people who take bad advise, screw up, and then don't learn from it. 

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Framer joe    455

I hear ya....I was referring to framing houses, general building practices....working with lumber. I wouldn't ask a guy to order steel on a house, obviously expensive to screw up....but we have an in house mechanic for our lulls and lifts...no one touches the machines but a qualified mechanic....

        I wouldn't have had that scenario happen. The policy for tools and machines is...." you break it you own it" ....my job as a supervisor is not only to hire and fire , but to inspire people, to make them the best they can be...I'm not a "screaming " type boss...I try to explain why something is done and to inspire greatness and pride in your work...

       way way of subject...point is ....go out of your comfort zone and ask questions , research and try to do things you haven't done before, people would be surprised at what they actual can accomplish.......rant ova 

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JMG    653

And then there are the types who will tell you something as advice just to see if you will actually do it...

 

True story;

 

My brother and a partner owned an auto repair shop for a few years. They had a "sort of customer" who would come in every week and ask for advice on how fix his own car. It was rare that he ever bought anything from them or had them fix anything for him. My brother's partner thought the guy was a tool and also got a bit tired of seeing him roll in every week. One day the guy rolls into the yard and the partner yells out, "HEY George, your brakes are squeaking, you best oil em!!"

 

Three days later...

"You fuckers almost KILLED me!!!"

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Framer joe    455

Funny, not  funny.....douchebag move bumming free advice and not paying the piper........I do stuff like ..." hey go to the truck and get the " board stretcher" frank cut that 2x12 short." 

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Jronman    828
34 minutes ago, Framer joe said:

Funny, not  funny.....douchebag move bumming free advice and not paying the piper........I do stuff like ..." hey go to the truck and get the " board stretcher" frank cut that 2x12 short." 

Board stretching solution haha reminds me of story I heard about my high school shop teacher doing. Kids cuts board short and teacher tells kid to get board stretching solution from the science lab. kid comes back and they apply the board streching solution which was really water to work over night. The kid didn't know it was water so he believed it. After the kid leaves the teacher takes the time to make a brand new board and puts it wherever it was supposed to go. Next day the kid comes to class and he was amazed that the board streching solution actually worked.

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