Makita Battery cell 20700

[ToolBane]

I wonder if the batteries have been ready for some time but Makita could be waiting to update a few more X2 tools so new buyers aren’t stumbling into annoying compatibility issues unaware

[SchenzhenSpecial]

4 hours ago, ToolBane said:

I wonder if the batteries have been ready for some time but Makita could be waiting to update a few more X2 tools so new buyers aren’t stumbling into annoying compatibility issues unaware

 

Doubtful. Normally something is leaked well in advance of a product release, even when only in alpha stages. The only things I've heard about new batteries being developed were said to have been scrapped and taken back to the drawing board. I've heard many different things. As it is the latest I've been told is expect nothing until the end of next year. We shall see. 

[Ned]

Last Year (2017) Makita UK said the same " Nothing coming this Year may be a the end of next (2018)" That`s way I have started this posts here. And it seams this Year will be the same as the last on batteries side of Makita business.

In my job (property maintenance) Carrying x5-6 batteries each day is so inconvenient  + my batteries getting old and I really do not want to invest in the same new.

Common Makita! Give us some HD Power Packs.  

[SchenzhenSpecial]

Really doesn't bother me. With the weight and bulk of some of the newer HD packs coming I'm struggling to see the benefit of cordless tools. Can't remember the last time I didn't have power, besides the minor inconvenience of having to run an extension, I'd prefer my tools to be compact and lightweight for all day use, not clunky, bulky and heavy with a battery the size of a house brick on the end of it. .

 

And for the benefit of what, 9" grinders than can manage 20 or so minutes of runtime on a near £300 battery? Meh; vanity project, no more practical than carrying 5-6 batteries and a charger around with you. 

[kornomaniac]

1 hour ago, SchenzhenSpecial said:

Really doesn't bother me. With the weight and bulk of some of the newer HD packs coming I'm struggling to see the benefit of cordless tools. Can't remember the last time I didn't have power, besides the minor inconvenience of having to run an extension, I'd prefer my tools to be compact and lightweight for all day use, not clunky, bulky and heavy with a battery the size of a house brick on the end of it. .

 

And for the benefit of what, 9" grinders than can manage 20 or so minutes of runtime on a near £300 battery? Meh; vanity project, no more practical than carrying 5-6 batteries and a charger around with you. 

But that's your opinion of of course. There are enough people that rather have a bulky battery then having to carry around and plug in an extension cord

[Ned]

2 hours ago, kornomaniac said:

But that's your opinion of of course. There are enough people that rather have a bulky battery then having to carry around and plug in an extension cord

@kornomaniac Thanks!

It seams @SchenzhenSpecial is interested in his/her own opinion only disregarding everyone else. 

[SchenzhenSpecial]

1 hour ago, Ned said:

@kornomaniac Thanks!

It seams @SchenzhenSpecial is interested in his/her own opinion only disregarding everyone else.  

 

I'm confused, are you saying I'm not entitled to an opinion because you don't agree with it?

 

The sales man @kornomaniacsells tools all day long; he'll have a clearer picture of what they're selling and to whom, I unfortunately have to make my money by using them and that is my opinion, like it or not.

 

3 hours ago, kornomaniac said:

There are enough people that rather have a bulky battery then having to carry around and plug in an extension cord

 

What about rather have a bulky HD compared to a few more slimmer/lighter/less-bulky batteries? You've moved the goal posts entirely to better support what you're saying. Most people would rather be cordless than corded; HD packs, depending on application still wont last you all day, you're going to need more than one or you'll need power to recharge them. Sure you'll need less to (as I suggested) run a 9" grinder but you certainly won't get away with only one for the average day at work. Consider it 4-5 (heavy, bulky) HD batteries, or 4-5 compact batteries and a charger.

 

It offers little benefit given the cost of them and greatly reduces the compact and lightweight factor that used to be a massive selling point of cordless tools.

 

As I've said, I work along side people that use tools that need a lot of juice, if you offer them a £200 angle grinder + £1000 worth of HD batteries or a £120 corded model... I'll let you decide which one wins.

 

 

[kornomaniac]

2 hours ago, SchenzhenSpecial said:

 

I'm confused, are you saying I'm not entitled to an opinion because you don't agree with it?

 

The sales man @kornomaniacsells tools all day long; he'll have a clearer picture of what they're selling and to whom, I unfortunately have to make my money by using them and that is my opinion, like it or not.

 

 

What about rather have a bulky HD compared to a few more slimmer/lighter/less-bulky batteries? You've moved the goal posts entirely to better support what you're saying. Most people would rather be cordless than corded; HD packs, depending on application still wont last you all day, you're going to need more than one or you'll need power to recharge them. Sure you'll need less to (as I suggested) run a 9" grinder but you certainly won't get away with only one for the average day at work. Consider it 4-5 (heavy, bulky) HD batteries, or 4-5 compact batteries and a charger.

 

It offers little benefit given the cost of them and greatly reduces the compact and lightweight factor that used to be a massive selling point of cordless tools.

 

As I've said, I work along side people that use tools that need a lot of juice, if you offer them a £200 angle grinder + £1000 worth of HD batteries or a £120 corded model... I'll let you decide which one wins.

 

 

 

HD packs are not only about runtime tho. Current Makita batteries have a real chance of overheating on the 9" grinder and the chainsaw. Overheating before you get to drain them. HD packs would make these tools more viable for many people. At the moment when someone comes in for the 9 inch grinder I have to ask alot of questions of my customer to make sure he understands the limitation of the tool. Limitations which are only there because of the battery.

 

And as a salesman it's indeed the truth that I'm getting the question for bigger packs more and more. Most people don't think ahead that a bigger ah battery will also be heavier. The marketing behind flexvolt for example just works. For most people the ability of going cordless outweighs the added bulk of bigger batteries.

 

If I were able to sell the 9" grinder with a pack of 9 or 12 amp batteries then my sales talk would be alot easier. Wouldn't have to worry about any overheating. I could tell them to expect thesame kind of use as a 5 inch grinder ( which pretty much everyone already has )

 

 

So in short: are HD packs absolutely needed for Makita ? The answer is 90% no. 10% yes for a few specific tools.

 

Would it hurt Makita to start giving their customers the option ? Wouldn't see why.  People like big numbers and they would sell. 

[ToolBane]

With X2 on a lot of their high-drain tools Makita can for the most part afford to “fall behind” a little in the max-capacity department so I guess they’d rather prioritize on releasing the right product. Which is fine to me if they need. Admittedly I don’t have a terribly strong utility for anything larger than the 5Ah batteries that I have (I use these things for hobbies and projects etc, not for employment), but even to me higher capacity batteries would be convenient on occasion. It’s amazing how fast Makita’s biggest impact wrench can get a 5Ah battery to read half-empty. What it reads I’m guessing mostly happens by way of how they design their battery protection but it still has practical consequences.

[Martin]

18 hours ago, SchenzhenSpecial said:

 

The only things I've heard about new batteries being developed were said to have been scrapped and taken back to the drawing board. I've heard many different things. As it is the latest I've been told is expect nothing until the end of next year. We shall see. 

Evolution of "The Gap" seems to support this theory. I would love myself some HD batteries, but not in Flexvolt form factor. Not at that price. I'd rather wait 2 more years for more compact ones, if that's what's needed. I'm completely with SchenzenSpecial on this, "keep it compact" is my top priority. However, I 'm not a pro and I' m not a salesman either.

[glass]

I am a pro. Makita please make hd ASAP but keep light and compact NOT like Dewalt and Milwaukee. No giant batteries. 

[kornomaniac]

Bosch did it right 😃

[ToolBane]

Ryobi just released 9Ah...

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-Volt-ONE-Lithium-Ion-LITHIUM-HP-9-0-Ah-High-Capacity-Battery-2-Pack-P168/304740785

[aessu]

15 hours ago, ToolBane said:

Ryobi just released 9Ah...

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-Volt-ONE-Lithium-Ion-LITHIUM-HP-9-0-Ah-High-Capacity-Battery-2-Pack-P168/304740785

Looks like that thing just has 15 18650cells in it, just looking at the picture and how big it seems to be. Makita could do that any time they wanted to, but theres no point really.

[ToolBane]

2 hours ago, aessu said:

Looks like that thing just has 15 18650cells in it, just looking at the picture and how big it seems to be. Makita could do that any time they wanted to, but theres no point really.

 

The footprint of the 6Ah and 9Ah batteries is notably larger than the old 4Ah batteries, so the speculation is these are larger than the 18650s used in those. I’m pretty sure I saw this confirmed somewhere when someone took a 6Ah apart, but can’t find the link.

 

Of course there’s no magic to this either, Makita could do this any time they feel like as well. I think they do have a strong desire to do larger cells, but a 3-layer, 18650-based battery that gets them to 9Ah and in their X2 configurations puts them well ahead of Milwaukee and Dewalt.   Not sure which direction maintains the broadest range of compatibility with current X2s while being most forward-friendly to future products. A lot of interesting ways that could go.

[bee-man]

Anyone saw this post by Toolpig?

 

 

[Martin]

Nice demonstration it gives me hope. 👍

[Ned]

4 hours ago, bee-man said:

Anyone saw this post by Toolpig?

 

 

Been nagging Makita UK for Year now about the same. Lost fate in it. It will not happen for current gen tools. Most likely the HD batteries , if any, will come with a new tools designed to take advantage of it. My set is 4-5 Years now so I most likely I will not get any benefits of new batteries, if any, but at least 5 and 6Ah will get cheaper, so I will renew my ageing batts. Do not really want to pay full price now for new 5 or 6Ah what currently is quite aging tech although they do good job for me.

[ToolBane]

I was taking a closer look at the X2 tools I’m interested in (plunge and miter) in consideration of what direction larger batteries could go. It’s extremely unlikely to matter how they go about it on the miter; the plunge saw however may not fit larger batteries depending on how they choose to go.

 

Funny thing is as I think on it I have essentially zero need for anything larger than the 5Ah I already have for those tools, so ultimately I don’t think I’ll let concern over future larger battery dimensions influence when I buy. The only tools it matters to me for are 18V tools where battery size won’t be an issue.

[kornomaniac]

Bosch sized batteries will fit. No problem

[Fireguy116]

I was speaking with the Makita rep at the Makita innovations tour that stopped here in PA yesterday. He said Makita will be releasing 9ah batteries sometime next year. He wasn’t sure What cells will be in them he just knows they will be coming out. 

[QuasarCZ]

1 hour ago, Fireguy116 said:

I was speaking with the Makita rep at the Makita innovations tour that stopped here in PA yesterday. He said Makita will be releasing 9ah batteries sometime next year. He wasn’t sure What cells will be in them he just knows they will be coming out. 

Finally! My angle grinders and chain saw are looking forward...

[ToolBane]

Well it’s nice to hear a semi-firm answer, I’ll just hope they come before September and aren’t $500 a pair.

[SchenzhenSpecial]

15 hours ago, Fireguy116 said:

I was speaking with the Makita rep at the Makita innovations tour that stopped here in PA yesterday. He said Makita will be releasing 9ah batteries sometime next year. He wasn’t sure What cells will be in them he just knows they will be coming out. 

 

Been hearing the same rumor for 18 months and every rep I speak to discredits it. I believe toolaholic kicked off that rumour on a live feed some time ago.

[D W]

If Makita uses bigger cells, then X2 tools are going to be seriously heavy and huge. Flexvolt are big with 15 cells, but Makita are possibly going to have 20 x 21700 cells on a single tool! 😨

 

I think Hitachi/Hikoki with Multivolt have a better approach. It's like a middle ground between Flexvolt and X2. A single 18650 Multivolt battery will do 36V and be exactly the same size as one of their original 6ah 18V batteries. To improve runtime (and likely power), they also have a bigger 21700 cell 8ah/4ah version. It's bigger, but not as big as Flexvolt or 2 x Makita batteries.

 

We haven't seen any reviews yet, but in theory Multivolt is looking like a winner. I kind of wish it was Makita that came up with the idea instead (or be the first ones to copy Flexvolt if you prefer I put it that way).