upcoming grinder comparison - oztooltalk

[dwain]

Hi All,

 

Mike and I will be doing an 18V grinder comparison in a couple of weeks. Just curious if anyone has any requests / ideas to help us make it better.

 

Below are the models we'll be using. We are using the biggest battery available for all units, but will also be checking for any power drop with more standard batteries where relevant:

 

AEG / Ridgid  BEWS18BLX125   -  6Ah Force, & 5Ah

Bosch  GWS 18V-125 SC            - 7Ah ProCore & 5Ah

Dewalt  DCG405N                        - 9Ah FV, & 5Ah

Hilti  AG 125-A22                          - 5.2Ah

Hitachi  G18DBBAL                      - 6Ah

Makita  DGA517                           - 6Ah

Metabo  WB 18 LTX BL 125         - 7Ah Li-HD, & 5.2Ah

Milwaukee  M18CAG125XPDB   - 9Ah, & 5Ah

 

We'll be using a jig that has cuts without much human intervention, which allows us to hang weights from the side handle thread.

 

Runtime test - 20mm solid round bar (will be converted to PER AH)

Power tests - 20mm, 24mm, 30mm, solid round bar, with weights as necessary

Comfort / Ergo testing - Cutting 25mm SHS and concrete, paint removal with flap disk

 

Draft score weighting:

Power	20
Runtime	15
Charge Time	5
Usability	10

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

[HiltiWpg]

You guys should compare batteries based on WH rather than straight AH, or at least mention it.

Using 9.0 AH is a little skewed!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[dwain]

1 hour ago, HiltiWpg said:

You guys should compare batteries based on WH rather than straight AH, or at least mention it.

Using 9.0 AH is a little skewed!

 

It's really hard to decide. Can you use Metabo / Bosch 7Ah 20700 cell batteries, and then NOT use the 9ah batteries? If we use only 5Ah batteries for all brands, we won't be seeing the full abilities of the grinders. Runtime will be scored on a per Ah to help even it out.

 

Actually you're right, scoring per Ah actually advantages the Hilti because it is 21.6V. I think I'll ignore it in scoring for simplicity, just mention it.

[Biggie]

Yea I think it's alright to try show how they all perform on the same size battery, but like you say some batteries actually change the performance of the grinder.  I think it would be dumb to not at least compare the grinders with the best battery available to the tool.  At the end of the day I want to know the best combination of a tool and battery, the numbers don't really mean as much as real world performance.

[D W]

Get the weights without batteries. Also, a shot above them side-by-side so we can compare size.

 

Looking forward to this one.

 

You wouldn't happen to have the brushed Metabo as well (which in one review beat some newer brushless models)?

[Biggie]

I know it won't be this video but it would a cool to see a big cordless grinder comparison 36v makita, metabo, hilti and the dewalt 60v, especially with the release of the 4/12ah flexvolt.

[D W]

@dwain would it be worthwhile to throw in a corded grinder as well? To reduce the amount of work you have to do it could be a single performance comparison test between the best performing cordless and a corded.

 

In advance i'll say thanks for the video, they must be a ton of work to make.

[ToolBane]

Battery capacities are a moving target. Any company running “only” 6Ah batteries today could be running 12Ah tomorrow. Dewalt is planning on releasing such a beast soon, and there are no magical forces to suggest we won’t see the same from every other company before long. Everyone knows they all source their cells from the same manufacturers anyway. 

 

My opinion the most objective testing should be done matching battery capacities as closely as possible. You can always do a comparative analysis after the fact, showing the degree brands currently having larger Ah batteries will perform even better than the “standard baseline” of 5-6Ah.

[dwain]

13 hours ago, Biggie said:

I know it won't be this video but it would a cool to see a big cordless grinder comparison 36v makita, metabo, hilti and the dewalt 60v, especially with the release of the 4/12ah flexvolt.

 

But what size grinders? Metabo have 9", Makita 7" and 9", Hilti 7" i think?, Dewalt are 5"...

[dwain]

12 hours ago, D W said:

@dwain would it be worthwhile to throw in a corded grinder as well? To reduce the amount of work you have to do it could be a single performance comparison test between the best performing cordless and a corded.

 

In advance i'll say thanks for the video, they must be a ton of work to make.

 

Cheers mate, we are planning to do exactly that actually. Not to include it in the comparison of course, but a reference for power. I've go a 900W Dewalt for the job.

[dwain]

6 hours ago, ToolBane said:

Battery capacities are a moving target. Any company running “only” 6Ah batteries today could be running 12Ah tomorrow. Dewalt is planning on releasing such a beast soon, and there are no magical forces to suggest we won’t see the same from every other company before long. Everyone knows they all source their cells from the same manufacturers anyway. 

 

My opinion the most objective testing should be done matching battery capacities as closely as possible. You can always do a comparative analysis after the fact, showing the degree brands currently having larger Ah batteries will perform even better than the “standard baseline” of 5-6Ah.

 

I hear ya ToolBane. How would you respond to one of the manufacturers though, if they say that the grinder comes with a premium battery in kits, and was designed for it (ala Bosch).

[StrippedScrew]

Looking forward to this, I'm in the market for a cordless grinder.

[ToolBane]

4 hours ago, dwain said:

 

I hear ya ToolBane. How would you respond to one of the manufacturers though, if they say that the grinder comes with a premium battery in kits, and was designed for it (ala Bosch).

I guess that’s a reasonable consideration, but is the Bosch not sold as a bare-tool?

 

Of course you’ll have to pick a winner for “best right-now” performance, so if for example the Bosch with it’s 7Ah capacity battery takes the cake then great. Then discuss by what degree the larger battery may have played a role by comparing the “normalized” results of all tools using 5Ah batteries across the board. My priorities won’t be the same as everyone else’s, in fact I might be a small minority so I don’t want to overstate or anything, but to me the normalized results are what I would want to see first. After that how significant a performance gain do larger batteries yield in general. All these manufacturers are going to be having 3-bank, 10Ah+ batteries coming before too long, and I don’t think it a radical assumption that all the tools you’ll be testing will yield better results when it happens, the same way impact drivers benefit every time you use a dual-bank battery in place of a compact single-bank.

[Biggie]

I know from personal experience that the 9.0 gives the fuel grinder a bump in power.  But I also know from experience that the dewalt xr 6.0 with the 20700 cells does nothing in terms of a power increase on the 20v brushless grinder.  Now bosch claims that they're getting more power from a core battery with 20700 cells.  This is why I like to see these tools compared with these different batteries to see how they really stack up to each other.

[dwain]

Essentially the test will show the best power/run time you can get out of each of the grinders with the current battery options, but also if theres a power drop running regular (18650) batts (e.g. 5/6Ah)

[HiltiWpg]

Essentially the test will show the best power/run time you can get out of each of the grinders with the current battery options, but also if theres a power drop running regular (18650) batts (e.g. 5/6Ah)

I think you need to do a grinder test, not a battery test. Get the WA as close as possible and let the grinders work it out. Having a 9AH vs a 5AH doesn't make sense. It may unfairly tip the scales in favor a tool that would perform the same or worse than another tool if it was tested with a lower capacity battery.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[dwain]

A Hilti rep would agree I'm sure. I daresay that Bosch and Metabo would feel very hard done by.

[dwain]

On 4/26/2018 at 5:44 AM, ToolBane said:

I guess that’s a reasonable consideration, but is the Bosch not sold as a bare-tool?

 

Of course you’ll have to pick a winner for “best right-now” performance, so if for example the Bosch with it’s 7Ah capacity battery takes the cake then great. Then discuss by what degree the larger battery may have played a role by comparing the “normalized” results of all tools using 5Ah batteries across the board. My priorities won’t be the same as everyone else’s, in fact I might be a small minority so I don’t want to overstate or anything, but to me the normalized results are what I would want to see first. After that how significant a performance gain do larger batteries yield in general. All these manufacturers are going to be having 3-bank, 10Ah+ batteries coming before too long, and I don’t think it a radical assumption that all the tools you’ll be testing will yield better results when it happens, the same way impact drivers benefit every time you use a dual-bank battery in place of a compact single-bank.

 

Hey Toolbane. Yeah I agree mostly. 

 

However some of these tools have been designed with a motor designed to take advantage of a higher-draw battery, while some have not. In this case, I think it important to show what the grinder is capable of.

[ToolBane]

17 hours ago, dwain said:

 

Hey Toolbane. Yeah I agree mostly. 

 

However some of these tools have been designed with a motor designed to take advantage of a higher-draw battery, while some have not. In this case, I think it important to show what the grinder is capable of.

Well yeah. Hence why I agree with the notion of including results with both the uber-huge batteries for the manufacturers that have them along with the results when the battery capacities are normalized, PLUS some discussion comparing how the different batteries impacted results.

 

Thing to me is, of course any given company that happens to have higher-output batteries has an incentive to argue their product needs to be tested that way. And sure you have to report where people can go if they want the best “right now” performance. 

 

But what about the hypothetical where team-pink’s tool can’t beat out team-purple’s tool unless team-pink uses the 3-bank battery that team-purple has yet to release? IF team pink’s tool we’re truly designed to make better use of higher current output, it probably shouldn’t NEED a bigger battery to avoid losing. So if a tool company was making that argument to me to justify basing their tool’s performance exclusively on their larger capacity battery, I’m actually going to get skeptical in a hurry.

[dwain]

we'll definitely be testing and informing people of the power drop associated with the more 'normal' batteries.

[Tug]

I have the Dewalt Flex and love it, superb power. Runtimes are a little short, especially on the 2/6, but noticeably better with a 3/9, so can only assume another huge jump from the 4/12. 

 

For what I do, the 5" is just about enough, but would like to see a 7" version released. 

 

Look forward to the vid, you guys work well in these comparisons.