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ToolBane

Solid state batteries: where we are, what we can expect

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Some of the more interesting points:

 

-Up to 2-3x the charge density of current lithium batteries

 

-Substantially reduced risk of flammability or explosion

 

-No concerns regarding memory effects

 

-Expected to last upwards of ten times as many charge/discharge cycles

 

-Much wider operating temperature 

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I'm wondering if we're going to see much as consumers for a while. The largest markets would be automotive and energy storage from renewables such as solar and wind. Seeing such tech in your hand I don't think will be around the corner.

 

Something you might want to read:

https://electrek.co/2018/02/28/bosch-gives-up-battery-cell-production-electric-car/

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I think we’re roughly a decade away, but that’s random speculation

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8 hours ago, ToolBane said:

I think we’re roughly a decade away, but that’s random speculation

 

It could be anywhere from 10 to 50 years. We know Lithium ion as-is needs to be eliminated, it's too dangerous in this World where everything has become safety conscience. Hopefully these early models are actually working as opposed to all the Tech we heard about 20 years ago in battery tech...remember the little nuclear cells everyone was going to have in their cell phones?

Hopefully the cell industry doesn't keep up this path of thinner is better if/when these become standard. I wish they doubled the size of the battery to make the phone thicker...it might fit better in skinny jeans or a girl's back pocket but it does not fit well in my hand. Even with a case they feel too thin.

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1 hour ago, BMack37 said:

Hopefully these early models are actually working as opposed to all the Tech we heard about 20 years ago in battery tech...remember the little nuclear cells everyone was going to have in their cell phones?

 

Sadly I do. I remember having a LOT of arguments with electrical engineers back then playing with cold fusion tubs in their living rooms who were convinced they were going to figure out how to make cold fusion work. I don’t even know where to begin with everything that’s wrong with that scenario. Anyone with a reasonably solid science background could immediately see through that so the science community never took any of it seriously. But no one listens to actual scientists anyway for some reason, least of all the media, so...

 

The hurdles involved with solid state batteries however are much more reasonable to overcome. Still just speculating, but roughly a decade away...I think that’s plausible.

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It could be anywhere from 10 to 50 years. We know Lithium ion as-is needs to be eliminated, it's too dangerous in this World where everything has become safety conscience. Hopefully these early models are actually working as opposed to all the Tech we heard about 20 years ago in battery tech...remember the little nuclear cells everyone was going to have in their cell phones?

Hopefully the cell industry doesn't keep up this path of thinner is better if/when these become standard. I wish they doubled the size of the battery to make the phone thicker...it might fit better in skinny jeans or a girl's back pocket but it does not fit well in my hand. Even with a case they feel too thin.
Uhh fuel cells are real. An alcohol breath tester is a fuel cell. It's just that high efficiency ones cost way too much to be practical most places. The space shuttle batteries were fuel cells due to space limits. Paslodes and CO2 cartridges are pretty close too. The nuclear stuff works but not practical. Can't improve on lead shielding nor shrink it down.


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On 10/10/2018 at 10:02 PM, ToolBane said:

I think we’re roughly a decade away, but that’s random speculation 

 

I think that's very optimistic.

 

When you look at companies that rely on battery technology with a massive amount of money to spend on research and implementation, you can get an idea of where the rechargable battery market is. So almost right away I thought of two companies.

 

Nasa and Tesla, primary being Nasa.

 

They produced a report last year looking at future battery capability for upcoming space missions and they're currently all based on lithium. There are variants, but the most commonly listed base is Li-Fe-PO4 (Lithium iron phosphate) and of course Li-Ion, namely Sony 18650 Cells.

 

They have lithium pegged for primary energy storange until at least 2021, the JPSS2 mission.

 

The last mission that wasn't lithium based was the Dawn mission, launched September 2007 and that was based on Nickle Hydrogen.

 

That's 17 years after Lithium was marketed by Sony. They did have earlier missions using Lithium but it wasn't considered the gold standard until 2009 where lithium replaced every following mission as primary storage.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjoq52j5JzfAhWE2qQKHZCcBZ8QFjABegQIYxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsolarsystem.nasa.gov%2Fsystem%2Fdownloadable_items%2F716_Energy_Storage_Tech_Report_FINAL.PDF&usg=AOvVaw3M72S99qqt7QiXavsgFuCZ

 

At this point, I thought if NASA don't have plans for it Tesla certainly wont.

 

As the video mentioned it was 1990(?) When sony released the first Li-ion battery cell for the mainstream; Ni-Cd was still heavily used well into the 2000's.

 

In the video you posted, good estimates for SS batteries for the Automotive market (the most important market for SS battery tech to really help cut climate change and reduce the use of fossil fuels) are 2025-2030, and WV have been working on it since 2012.

 

I think from now to the point where it's a mainstream concern to the point it replaces Lithium would be as much as a quarter of a decade away. It would certainly be nice to see it come beforehand given the detriment lithium mining is doing but I just can't see it.

 

Quote

Demand for lithium is increasing exponentially, and it doubled in price between 2016 and 2018. According to consultancy Cairn Energy Research Advisors, the lithium ion industry is expected to grow from 100 gigawatt hours (GWh) of annual production in 2017, to almost 800 GWhs in 2027.

 

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact

 

There's no sign of Lithium production slowing, only increasing. Given that, 10 years is very hopeful but incredibly unlikely.

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