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ToolBane

Title edit: Makita announcing XGT 36V line

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And for the record listen to this Makita, yep 1 big  battery makes the tool heavier. guess what in case you have not noticed so does putting 2 batteries on a tool. Just make the damn lxt batteries with the 21700 cells and shut the hell up. Stop over thinking it. 

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The beginning of the end for Makita. It will take a few years but this path will set them back relative to the competition. 

This made me laugh.

 

Makita has been making cordless tools a helluva lot longer than DeWalt and Milwaukee.

 

They'll be fine.

 

Unlike Milwaukee, Makita doesn't rush tools out every other month.

 

These new batteries are compact, lightweight and will be cost-effective.

They appear to have been very well thought out.

 

I am looking forward to it.

 

 

 

 

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Why 40v if they have X2 18v (36v) ...I can only think they want to compete with flexvolt and larger voltage is needed with larger cells...
Size.

I would think they'd discontinue the 2x 18v line.

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2 hours ago, HiltiWpg said:

Size.

I would think they'd discontinue the 2x 18v line.

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So far they’re saying they still have more X2 tools planned and have no intention of changing that...we’ll see if that continues to be the case years down the road, but I won’t doubt it for now. Chances are if nothing else they still have some coming down the pipeline and they may as well get their return on investment. Much like the recent 12” X2 miter saw. If I were to hazard a guess, I kinda expect X2 will continue to be their high-power LXT solution for the foreseeable future.

 

At first a lot of the buzz about this had me a little concerned about LXT support. But thinking about it now, it’s much the opposite. They have plenty of other battery lines they toy around with around the world. They’re pretty committed it seems to growing a healthy CXT line, and there’s no reason to believe that is some threat to LXT either. This just isn’t anything to worry about for LXT users at all. Other than some might end up being really awesome and envy-inducing.

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14 hours ago, ToolBane said:

At first a lot of the buzz about this had me a little concerned about LXT support. But thinking about it now, it’s much the opposite. They have plenty of other battery lines they toy around with around the world. They’re pretty committed it seems to growing a healthy CXT line, and there’s no reason to believe that is some threat to LXT either. This just isn’t anything to worry about for LXT users at all. Other than some might end up being really awesome and envy-inducing.

 

I share most of that feeling, different battery platforms can co-exist.

 

On the other hand, I had hoped that XGT would offer some kind of one-way backward compatibility. Dewalt and Hikoki have done a good job in this regard with their Flexvolt/Multivolt systems.

I am now hoping that 21700 cells will find their way to LXT, ideally sooner than later. I wouldn't want XGT to be the only option for capacities beyond 100 wh. Larger tools from the Makita OPE line can certainly benefit from a couple of extra ah.

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I already have tools. They are makitas. They last. I just want better batteries. I do not need more power. More run time on high drain tools. Blowers vacuums skil saws sawzals rotary drills chain saws. Etc.   get it got it good. Your not listening. 

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5 hours ago, stefcl100 said:

 

I share most of that feeling, different battery platforms can co-exist.

 

On the other hand, I had hoped that XGT would offer some kind of one-way backward compatibility. Dewalt and Hikoki have done a good job in this regard with their Flexvolt/Multivolt systems.

I am now hoping that 21700 cells will find their way to LXT, ideally sooner than later. I wouldn't want XGT to be the only option for capacities beyond 100 wh. Larger tools from the Makita OPE line can certainly benefit from a couple of extra ah.


It’s entirely possible they may make an adapter similar to what they already did with their previous 36V platform that allows you to use a pair of LXT batteries on XGT tools basically X2-style. I almost think it more likely to happen than not.

 

2 hours ago, glass said:

I already have tools. They are makitas. They last. I just want better batteries. I do not need more power. More run time on high drain tools. Blowers vacuums skil saws sawzals rotary drills chain saws. Etc.   get it got it good. Your not listening. 

 

We pretty much all agree. And given how meticulous the design of the XGT 4Ah battery is, it’s hard to picture Makita not already having an essentially finished 8Ah LXT battery already designed; more a question of whether or not they’re willing to now, and how long it takes if they really are hesitating needlessly as some people are speculating.

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Note I am not bagging on xgt   Looks cool. I am bagging makitas lack of support to all of us lxt adopters. Their tools rock. Now get us the high demand batteries. I am a customer heavily invested in Makita. I will divest   Probably would take at 3 other manufacturers to cover what I like about my makitas. 

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44 minutes ago, glass said:

Probably would take at 3 other manufacturers to cover what I like about my makitas. 


At least two other brands for me

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Is there any tool range comparable to Makita LXT in terms of size? 

Ryobi One+ perhaps? It may even make more sense for homeowners like me but I am not willing to be reasonable.. (.. or smart 😊). 

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Isn’t LXT around 225 Tools currently? Subtract the two dozen impact drivers and M18 and 20v Max are firmly in the same territory. 

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I find the backwards compatibility of the Dewalt Flexvolt very compelling and I hope that Makita at least offers some sort of adapter for their new XGT batteries so they work with some of my LXT tools.

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The ideal situation is scrap xgt and just make 21700 lxt batteries but since that is not going to be the case we at the very least need two adapters one to fit an xgt battery on lxt tools and another to fit 2 xgt batteries on x2 tools.

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Problem is different voltage. Such adapter had to include some step-down voltage regulator. It would be not easy with currents maybe up to 50 amps.

 

I really don't understand Makita's aversion to offer 21700 LXT batteries.

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On 11/12/2019 at 5:09 AM, QuasarCZ said:

I really don't understand Makita's aversion to offer 21700 LXT batteries.

 

I was surprised to learn that a  LXT x4 mower has been announced (in fact it's 2x18v * 2 but still)....

From the same people who are telling you that 18v / 9ah wouldn't make sense...

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I was surprised to learn that a  LXT x4 mower has been announced (in fact it's 2x18v * 2 but still)....
From the same people who are telling you that 18v / 9ah wouldn't make sense...

I am glad they split the tool line.

I love the size and weight of my Makita tools.
I honestly can’t believe the ridiculousness of battery sizes now.
There exists a point where tools need power beyond 18v limitations.
Throwing huge batteries at it isn’t a solution. The motors don’t magically increase in size just because you have a bigger battery.
I love my 18v brushless rotary hammer drill, but would rather have a true 36v battery platform, than hauling around massive 12.0 18v batteries that really don’t offer additional performance.





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I'd take the other approach: 9ah or 12ah can be an option for existing equipment, they absolutely don't have to be the primary choice for every type of tool. I believe that customers are smart enough to decide which size of battery makes sense on which tool. Those using larger OPE or vacuum cleaners may benefit from extra runtime beyond the current 110-120wh limitation, those using the sub-compact series are free to stick to 1.5-3ah.

 

Other brands did a nice job (imho) with Flexwolt/multivolt systems, and nobody is forcing people to buy the larger Flexvolt batteries if they are happy with smaller XR packs. 

 

From all the possible routes, Makita chose the one that offered the least in terms of backward compatibility, let's hope that this choice will also come with some advantages (better motors?). Fair enough, but if the questionable absence of larger LXT batteries is going to be used as the main selling argument for XGT, some people will be (legitimately) upset.

 

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It’s funny when a company makes a poor decision. There will always be the apologists. Nothing wrong with xgt. Just make more powerful batteries for lxt. Some tools can handle The slight increase in weight like rotary hammers, blowers, miter saws, chain saws, lawn mowers. I think any of the single battery lxt tools would benefit from a 21700 5.5 amp or 6 amp battery. 
furthermore xgt is just like metabo hpt 36 volt line without the ac option. Additionally these tools max at 4 x 36 = 144 watts. 9 x 18 = 162. So right off the bat the competitors have more juice. Which means more run time. Those Bosch and metabo batteries look good. Maybe once they catch up on the tool front it’s time to leave Makita. For me it’s a waiting game. As my Makita tools eventually wear out I will evaluate and more than likely branch out. I find the Makita batteries to have marbles while others have heuvos. 

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A little irony just crossed my mind...

 

With the batteries already available in X2 tools right now, XGT will actually have a hard time playing the part of the heavy-duty tool range. The 4Ah 40V Max XGT battery actually has less watt hours per charge than a pair of 5 or 6Ah batteries in X2. The only ways around this would be to either:

 

A- release an even bigger 6Ah 40V Max battery (equivalent to Milwaukee’s 12Ah 18V High Demand, or Dewalt’s 4Ah 60V Max), or...

 

B- create X2 variants of their XGT tools

 

What a conundrum for Makita I suspect this will be. It’s easy to forget that compared to X2, Flexvolt and High Demand really only barely caught up in terms of total watt hours per charge with their latest oversized batteries, and I suspect they are unlikely to be compelled to push further, at least not until the next major generation of battery technology comes out. But XGT as of this moment is actually a downgrade for high-power tools for the time being.

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17 minutes ago, ToolBane said:

But XGT as of this moment is actually a downgrade for high-power tools for the time being.

 

Exactly. Increased power but decreased runtime. I'm really curios when Makita will introduce first X2 XGT tool 😀 Makita doesn't like big batteries.

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The Japanese market will be the first to see it. Could easily be a year or more before we start to see them much anywhere else.

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A little irony just crossed my mind...
 
With the batteries already available in X2 tools right now, XGT will actually have a hard time playing the part of the heavy-duty tool range. The 4Ah 40V Max XGT battery actually has less watt hours per charge than a pair of 5 or 6Ah batteries in X2. The only ways around this would be to either:
 
A- release an even bigger 6Ah 40V Max battery (equivalent to Milwaukee’s 12Ah 18V High Demand, or Dewalt’s 4Ah 60V Max), or...
 
B- create X2 variants of their XGT tools
 
What a conundrum for Makita I suspect this will be. It’s easy to forget that compared to X2, Flexvolt and High Demand really only barely caught up in terms of total watt hours per charge with their latest oversized batteries, and I suspect they are unlikely to be compelled to push further, at least not until the next major generation of battery technology comes out. But XGT as of this moment is actually a downgrade for high-power tools for the time being.


What’s funny is a few years ago when flexvolt and 9.0 Milwaukee batteries, Makita released a cute chart showing a advantage to two 5.0 batteries


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What’s funny is a few years ago when flexvolt and 9.0 Milwaukee batteries, Makita released a cute chart showing a advantage to two 5.0 batteries


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It still holds up.
Higher voltage = lower current.
Lower current, less heat.
Less heat, longer life.

I still can’t believe dewalt missed the boat on 120v tools.
That would have been epic, dual voltage 60/120v, 120VAC.
That made so much sense for high demand cordless.


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