dwain Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hey all, I was thinking to myself that lots of people come here asking advice about which 18V / 20V brand they should invest in. I believe I have a better than average knowledge of the offerings of the big four, so thought I'd create a spreadsheet. The idea is, you download the spreadsheet, then: Set a weighting (1-4) on the tools/skins that you want to own and set all tools you don't care about to zero. You may also have a different opinion of which brands score 1,2,3,4 or 5 for each of the tools/skins (a jigsaw for example). The default scores put in are my opinion (and sometimes my guess), coupled with what tools are most important to me. I'd love if people wanted to argue for a different scoring in the master spreadsheet, based on proper comparisons/reviews. Since I can't upload an Excel spreadsheet here , I've put it here (no account required, but you'll need to download it to alter) - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TDD_cT69RhJZb4bbJcR8WDiiFG_BztxTvBAwId4oxSA Hope you like it. Sources I've used: oztooltalk, tool craze, TIA comparisons DRILL http://oztooltalk.com/hammer_drill_comparison/ GRINDER http://www.coptool.com/brushless-grinder-showdown-2015-milwaukee-makita-metabo/ http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/cordless-tools/18-volt-cordless-angle-grinders_o.aspx?dfpzone=home CIRC SAW http://www.aconcordcarpenter.com/18-volt-cordless-circular-saw-head-to-head.html RECIP SAW http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/saws/18-volt-cordless-recip-saws-tool-test_o.aspx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg2Q1GsRIE8&feature=youtu.be&a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR99 Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 This sounds like a great idea.The only thing is you do get a different value proposition from Australia to the USA when it comes to tool pricing, and the few tools that are sold in your neck of the woods that are not sold here. Other than that little wiggle its a great idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 This sounds like a great idea.The only thing is you do get a different value proposition from Australia to the USA when it comes to tool pricing, and the few tools that are sold in your neck of the woods that are not sold here. Other than that little wiggle its a great idea. Yep that's why it's about people downloading and customizing for themselves. If something is unavailable for you, strike it out. If I've missed something, add it in. After you've decided what tools you really want, THEN you can figure out if they're worth the money being asked in your region... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hmmmmm Good idea man ! Some changes I believe would say: The rated '3' on Makita batteries I assume is because of the battery problems of their last generation batteries? This is in all not a current problem anymore what so ever. For someone deciding right now: " what brand should i go with?" I don't believe that problems of the past would matter. Else Milwaukee's V18 problems or dewalts changing from the old style to new style batteries etc.. would also matter? I think it should be a ' 4 ' They do miss the led capacity indicator ! And in compact drill I also do not understand the 3. I know you dont like any of Makita's compact Dwain but I'm asking myself the question why? Most sold compact drill in all of belgium here for the past 2 years has been the DDF480. 60 newtons max torque. Compact in size. 1.7kg with an XC battery. Complete with all electronical protection circuits that we have come to expect. Battery gauge on the drill. All in all it completly compares to the compact offerings from dewalt / metabo / Bosch. So I'd say this should also be a 4 The Makita Recip saw. Maybe even a 2. I really do not like that one. I have already told customers in my store to not buy it. in my opinion it is the only bad 18v tool that makita makes. Bosch Compact impact wrench: This one does not get a 5 in my book. The combination of being able to fit sockets and bits is a cool thing, nonetheless that tool only offers a low 185 newton meters of torque. Which makes it a strong, but heavy, impact driver. But an underpowered impact wrench. Milwaukee's and Makita's offerings feature 50% more torque in a more compact design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hmmmmm Good idea man ! Some changes I believe would say: The rated '3' on Makita batteries I assume is because of the battery problems of their last generation batteries? This is in all not a current problem anymore what so ever. For someone deciding right now: " what brand should i go with?" I don't believe that problems of the past would matter. Else Milwaukee's V18 problems or dewalts changing from the old style to new style batteries etc.. would also matter? I think it should be a ' 4 ' They do miss the led capacity indicator ! And in compact drill I also do not understand the 3. I know you dont like any of Makita's compact Dwain but I'm asking myself the question why? Most sold compact drill in all of belgium here for the past 2 years has been the DDF480. 60 newtons max torque. Compact in size. 1.7kg with an XC battery. Complete with all electronical protection circuits that we have come to expect. Battery gauge on the drill. All in all it completly compares to the compact offerings from dewalt / metabo / Bosch. So I'd say this should also be a 4 The Makita Recip saw. Maybe even a 2. I really do not like that one. I have already told customers in my store to not buy it. in my opinion it is the only bad 18v tool that makita makes. Bosch Compact impact wrench: This one does not get a 5 in my book. The combination of being able to fit sockets and bits is a cool thing, nonetheless that tool only offers a low 185 newton meters of torque. Which makes it a strong, but heavy, impact driver. But an underpowered impact wrench. Milwaukee's and Makita's offerings feature 50% more torque in a more compact design. Thanks Dominic. Here are my responses: I assume that the batteries are just as good as others who are rated a four, however they still lack the battery indicator, which really bothers me. Also, they were VERY slow to release 4.0Ah batteries in the US, leaving users to sit with 3Ah and 1.3Ah batteries for a long time. They STILL don't have a 2Ah or 2.5Ah slim battery. The makita compact drill is light and has decent (but not great) power. But it has low RPMs, and i've yet to see a Makita plastic chuck that doesn't have excessive wobble. Do you not find their chucks below par? What is SO bad about Makita's recip saw? I know its a bit under-powered, but I've found it ok... With regard to Bosch's compact impact wrench, I'm scoring the new brushless wrench, which competes directly with Makita's & Milwaukee's dedicated BL wrenches. I counted the brushless impact/wrench hybrid in the impact driver category. http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=iwbh182-01l At the moment I'm only considering changing the compact drill score, do you know of any objective reviews / comparisons for this one? I just re-watched Javier's (Tool Craze) review, who rated it highly. Maybe it deserves a 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hey Dwain ! Yeah i'm of course basing my opinion on the releases here in Belgium and we always get the good stuff quite fast 4.0 amp was out in belgium fast and 2.0 amp has been out for atleast one and a half year. It's true that battery release in USA was reaaaaally slow ! Dont want to argue that But what i'm trying to say: At this moment for some one who is trying to decide on what brand to choose. The only bad point would seem to be the lack off battery indicators which would give them a minus point.... imo bringing them to 4. On the Compact drill Bosch has the GSR 18 V-EC Compact - Brushless - 50 newtons of max torque. 1700 rpm. Plastic chuck.Dewalt has the DCD790 Compact - Brushless - 60 Newton meters of max Torque - 2000 rpm - Metal chuckMakita DDF480 Compact - Brushless - 60 Newton meters of max torque - 1550 rpm - Plastic chuckMetabo BS 18 LT Compact - Brushed - 60 Newton meters of max torque - 1600 rpm - Metal ChuckMilwaukee 2702 compact - Brushless - 56 Newton meters of torque ( according to google conversion from 500 In-Lib) - 1800 rpm - Metal ChuckHitachi DS18DSL(LS) Compact - Brushed - 54 Newtons Meters of torque - 1400 rpm - Plastic chuck. In power it's on top shared with Dewalt and Metabo. Others are trailing slightly behind with Bosch having only 50 which is getting pretty close to drills i sell for DIY people ( in terms of torque ).Most in this list are brushless with exceptions of Metabo/Hitachi.Rpm's is definitly not too high on the Makita ! Never compared these figures before. Bosch/Dewalt/ Milwaukee take the lead here. Trailed behind them are Makita and metabo and hitachi last.Metal / plastic chuck --> In my opinion this really doesn't matter. Up untill 2 years ago the Bosch heavy duty drill GSR 18 V-2-Li had a plastic chuck. A Plastic chuck on one of the toughest drills we all know. If a plastic chuck is of good quality it can easily be a better chuck then a cheaper metal one. All in all i think all of these above tools have a good chuck. Personal thing of course but in the 300 + DDF480 i've sold in the last 2 years i can honestly say i've had only 1 come back with chuck wobble. That's a manufacturers error and it happens to all tools once in a while. I've had alot more of Bosch's brushless drills coming back with triggers that only work half the time straight out the box. That's a recurring problem of theirs. ( Also had it on their newer type brushless 10.8v drill driver and the brushless GOP 18V Multitool. Somewhere in their brushless electronic package they still have a problem to figure out ). The older model compact that makita did before this brushless version. BDF456 didnt have the best chuck. But that models hasn't been on the market for a few years so old news. All in all, except for a what mediocre top speed that drill has pretty much everything you want from a compact. And it's really compact and light as Javier also says in his review On the Recip Dunno just hate it. Underpowered, drains batteries waaay too fast, no anti vib in it. Just not my tool. On the Bosch Impact I was actually really disappointed when Bosch released this one. It's big and bulky, it's heavier. It has less power. It does not give you 3 speed settings. And it has a few hundred rpm's less then the others. There's actually nothing on this one that makes it interesting compared to other offerings by Milwaukee / Makita. It's a good upgrade compared to their formed impact wrench. But for a newer tool it's tailing behind in every way. Well my 2 cents. Hope you just see this as a discussion. That's how I mean it Don't want to offend or anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 That's the purpose of this thread! I think that disagreeing without getting upset at one another is one of the hallmarks of mature relationship. I agree, the docking of one point for the battery indicator is fair, bringing them back to 3. I think none of the main four brands can be level with the Metabo batteries though, which got a 5. OK I'm sold on the compact drill, I'll bump it up to 4 in my next update. FYI, your totally mislead about the Bosch compact. It has so much low-end torque, it out-performed the Dewalt DCD790. It's plastic chuck is just so nice and sturdy (though I'd love a metal one), I'm dissapointed to hear it has trigger problems. I still like the Bosch brushed version better than the brushless, I'm about to buy it. Specs can be misleading. Regarding the recip, I just re-found this comparison, so I'm also convinced to go with you on this. I'll also bump the Dewalt up one. http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/saws/18-volt-cordless-recip-saws-tool-test_o.aspx Bosch Wrench. Have you compared the new models? I haven't played with one yet, but it does appear to be longer (though about the same weight). It has the three LED lighting too. I assume that its 250 Nm will actually be pretty close to the 280Nm of Makita / Milwaukee, but I need to hear/see a comparison. What do you reckon? Not sure why I had the Dewalt wrench at 5, I'll be pegging that back to 3. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Its abit longer. Its 1.9 kg against makita's 1.7The European version at least does nog feature the different power settings. Maybe USA one does ? Now 250 or 280 . i do not think you will be able to deel the difference really. But it doesnt really stand out in anything compared to Milwaukee/Makita Models so i would put it 1 point below the Makita/Milwaukee.And now i see what you mean with the batteries. With metabo you looked at the newer lihd of course ! Those get a 5. Other Brands a 4. Lack of indicator makes it 3. Harsh but i see your point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 And im gonna try out the Bosch model monday when im at work. Those torque numbers dont give you an idea on low end torque Yeah some testing will occur !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Its abit longer. Its 1.9 kg against makita's 1.7The European version at least does nog feature the different power settings. Maybe USA one does ? Now 250 or 280 . i do not think you will be able to deel the difference really. But it doesnt really stand out in anything compared to Milwaukee/Makita Models so i would put it 1 point below the Makita/Milwaukee.And now i see what you mean with the batteries. With metabo you looked at the newer lihd of course ! Those get a 5. Other Brands a 4. Lack of indicator makes it 3. Harsh but i see your point With regard to the 280 vs 250, I guess I'm just waiting to see if there is ANY real difference. Bosch can be a bit conservative with their numbers, and there are many ways to test torque. If it much behind them, I'll drop it to 4. Even without the LiHD batteries, the Metabo 5.2Ah batts just go forever (as seen in our hammer drill comparison). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm surprised this hasn't got more traction? Maybe korn and I derailed it a bit early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Sorry for that then just sharing my opinions on the list ^^Maybe your scores were just so spot on noone had anything to add ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm not on my computer very often, but I'll play around with the spreadsheet when I get a chance. I think it's a great idea Dwain, and applaud the amount of time you've put into executing it. This should prove to be a valuable resource for the forum because we can move further towards fact and objectivity rather than subjective opinions and popularity contests (this is especially important for Milwaukee I feel, because their halo products like the Fuel line can tend to make people give a pass to some of their more mediocre products). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Sorry for that then just sharing my opinions on the list ^^ It wasn't a criticism Sometimes lots of replies or big replies put people off from engaging (like me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxy Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Just an FYI - I can't access the download link anymore. Looks like it may have expired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Thanks Moxy. I'll re-upload when I get home tonight. Probably need to find a way to upload it indefinately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sorry, finally got around to uploading this in a permanent location (google drive) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TDD_cT69RhJZb4bbJcR8WDiiFG_BztxTvBAwId4oxSA Updated some default scores too, I haven't reviewed much Metabo, but they seem to have a habit of being best in class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted April 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 updated these scores a bit lately. Looking forward to seeing how the new Makita recip and Dewalt planer goes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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