ToolBane

Pretty much no one secures their batteries by more than one “surface”. If any tool’s batteries are vibrating to the point where they are slapping against any other part of the tool, their interface is already mechanically compromised. Also, Makita has employed some pretty impressive vibration damping on this tool, something they’re generally ahead of most of the competition on.

Meh fine the important thing is it’s not a Makita thing

Isn’t subtle at all, like whatever they have coming down the pipeline will be a substantial difference

I don’t know if you just ruined my day or made it. The short-nose only just appeared on Makita’s US site, so maybe they don’t think these are as worthwhile to offer here or something? Same time I LOVE the idea of picking up a brushless model...that is if they even release it here in the States.

Looks slick. The talk has been all about Milwaukee upping their game in the carpentry/finishing departments, maybe this is just another step in that direction.

Now if only Makita could release a cordless soldering iron...brilliant idea by Milwaukee doing that. Not sure how Makita would go about doing one of their own since they seem to be stepping away from pod-style batteries. I don’t fancy the idea of buying into an additional platform just for one tool, but I’ve had SO MANY occasions where a cordless soldering iron would have been a godsend.

Yeah, as Brad M points out, they have a 1/8” collet available. This may prove to be better for my actual needs than a Dremel-sized tool, since it can also handle 1/4” fine and using my Dremel on projects that aren’t all that small has come up more than a few times. There is an approachability that the Dremel’s small size brings when working on really little things though...

https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XDG02Z Makita also just released a compact version of their die grinder. I DO want a Makita product more directly akin to a Dremel, and would have preferred something more along the lines of what Milwaukee has in their M12 line, but this would have some advantages too staying compatible with my current battery platform.

https://www.protoolreviews.com/news/makita-auto-start-wireless-system-video/35953/ Some discussion about how Makita implemented their AWS and how certain design decisions will likely keep these new AWS tools forward-compatible as the system gets updated. Although I kind of can’t help but lament that it can’t be retrofitted to the cordless router I got a couple months ago, their decisions make a lot of sense. Also can’t help but drool at the X2 miter and plunge saws. Two purchases I look forward to.

https://www.protoolreviews.com/news/makita-auto-start-wireless-system-video/35953/ AWS hadn’t crossed my mind as much here but this video shed a little light on why Makita opted to make their Bluetooth chip a plug-in attachment. They also touched a little on their 10” X2 miter specifically. I noticed here also the spaces for the batteries suggest they have designed this in advance to accommodate larger batteries whenever Makita decides to release them. With all that said, I also think there is something to be said for the Dewalt running their 12” in X2 and the power output that suggests they designed it to take regularly.

I tend to think Ryobi is the best 2nd-platform to have among DIY types. Anything your manufacturer of choice doesn’t have, chances are Ryobi has something for you. Also good for things you don’t do regularly so you don’t need it to take heavy abuse on a daily basis year after year.

I may have a serious look at this. At my DIY scale of things I would hope as long as it functions reasonably well I don’t need to spend top-dollar on a prosumer-caliber unit.

Well, coincidentally I actually have a non-trivial amount of engineering background among other things, though it doesn’t happen to be my current line of work. When it comes to cells, a larger cell can more easily be made to have a lower internal resistance than a smaller cell (which is where the heat comes from when cells are subjected to high current exchange), but it’s far from guaranteed, because the quality of lithium cells are all over the map. Lithium cells can have a wide range of internal resistances. So it’s not quite as simple as saying larger cells automatically will be more efficient...but it is a general trend you might expect. One would have to look at the quality of cells, which will depend on the manufacturer they are sourced from among other things. I’m not privy to all that myself for power tools specfically, and some other people here will likely have more of that stuff off the top of their heads than me as far as power tools are concerned, I just know it will be a factor here the same way it is for lithium cells being used for anything else. There is certainly the potential to gain higher efficiency via higher voltages, as probably a good percentage of people have gotten to experience first-hand, but it is not guaranteed. More precisely, you can get the same efficiency using less copper in your wiring, motor windings, etc. That doesn’t create an insurmountable hurdle for competitors using lower voltages, not within the power draw we have on power tools, for the most part they may have to weigh more material cost against lower efficiency. In most applications you can match performance if you are sufficiently willing to bear the material cost. This is what Milwaukee is almost certainly banking on to keep competitive against X2, Flexvolt, etc while committing to straight 18V for now. They probably can’t sit on that forever, but that’s another topic. Forgive me if for some of you these are all concepts you are already perfectly familiar with. I don’t assume this is all familiar for everyone however.

Not to mention this is a Makita thread to begin with.

It looks like he’s comparing batteries to me, and his is not a statement citing direct use of the tools here. It’s a hand-waving statement guaranteeing superiority of all Flexvolt tools on account of an assumed superiority in their batteries. There are advantages to using a higher voltage arrangement, but they don’t guarantee higher performance on the scale we’re talking about. People can be fans and have a hard time not being enthusiastic about what they like, but the way his post reads doesn’t lend the impression he understands the 18V vs 20V is nothing more than marketing/labeling. That isn’t uncommon at all, and when fans latch on to such misunderstandings to justify their fandom it’s...awkward.

This is why I chose the word “questionable” as opposed to “shady” or “dishonest”. I had a better word, but forgot it while typing.

I get the sense you’re falling for Dewalt’s questionable marketing labeling with the whole “20V/60V Max” thing. The actual operating voltage of Dewalt’s “60V Max” batteries is 54V. Dewalt’s “20V Max” batteries are 18V nominal voltage exactly the same way all 18V platforms are. They’re claiming 20 volts because that’s the voltage an 18V battery reads when fully charged and NOT doing any work. ALL 18V Lithium batteries will measure 20V when first charged and not doing any work, regardless of who the manufacturer it is. They buy the same Lithium ion cells everyone else buys from Samsung, Sony, etc then wire them in the same 5-cell series to reach the 18V operating voltage. Applied to Flexvolt, Dewalt’s “60V Max” batteries are really 3x18V=54V. They’re even labeled that way in other countries they’re sold in. The 3Ah “60V Max” battery has the same power available as Milwaukee’s 9Ah 18V High Demand, and less than 2x5Ah 18V Makita batteries in X2. There’s no way around it.

Seem to speak to the point that displaying a competitor’s product mostly draws attention to said competitor’s product given all we’re talking about now is Kobalt stuff

Yeah I think I just typed a search in that didn’t pull it up. That maybe they don’t sell it as a bare tool? Because I didn’t look past the bare tools.

I had to check over there and yeah, there are a decent bit more tools than I remember since even a few months ago. A lot of them are brushless, too. Interesting they haven’t released an impact driver yet. They must want it to be something special, because their impact wrenches look extremely price-competitive already to my eyes.

I’m still looking out for that radio controlled truck

I get the impression this will prove entertaining... I’m actually planning on going Makita pretty soon just because of where my priorities and preferences tend to be, but I can’t answer for what yours may be...brand loyalty is silly regardless. Both are really good performers. I also like good dust clearing, but more important to me is it seems you can likely get better precision with Makita including how well it’s calibrated out of the box from what I’ve seen. Not like the Dewalt is any slouch though and it is an awfully good deal. But when it comes to precision, while I’ve never been expressly unhappy with my Dewalt miter saws in the past, for my priorities I’m going to consider it an upgrade when I get a Makita miter before my next “big” project. The enhanced dust-clearing factor is just icing on the cake, really.

Kobalt has both a pretty good heavy and reasonably stout compact impact wrench, which is a pleasant surprise for a budget platform. Personally I would love to see them expand, but I don’t know how sustainable their current 1-year return policy is.

I also really like the steps Makita goes to reducing vibration. And they’re very tempered, intelligent steps, nothing overboard or poorly thought-out. Those little rubber nubs on everything do great. Then the rubber suspension gasket they have on their heavy impact wrench and OMT. Massive benefit without being intrusive in terms of form/function at all. I was really trying to avoid buying that OMT too...so “full-size” in comparison to all their other cordless tools, but the vibration damping ended up clinching it for me.

Yeah it probably even violates their own policy somewhere for them to do this. Could get them in trouble not only with the competitor in addition to practically advertising a brand you don’t carry...Home Depot’s corporate office wouldn’t want anything to do with this.