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So if you don't buy Flexvolt, is it no soup for you?


aabee

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I own a brushless DeWalt impact driver and drill and waited year after year for them to come up with something, anything, brushless in categories besides fastening applications. A brushless circular saw in particular was grossly overdue, not to mention a brushless reciprocating saw.

 

Is the only reason DeWalt decided to wait 4 years to finally bring out brushless versions of these tools to pimp their FlexVolt platform, and would there be any scenario under which they'd make versions for 20v tool/battery owners who don't want to invest in yet another battery platform?

 

Kind of hard for me to get excited about this FlexVolt stuff when it feels like dedicated 20v owners are being asked to pony up another $200+ just to be able to receive brushless tools that should have been available (and were available from other companies) 3+ years ago.

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"should have been available ... 3 years ago". sounds a little entitled, sorry.

 

there are a total of 2 manufacturers who have a brushless circular saw or reciprocating saw, and one of them only did so in the last year. Not to mention that Dewalt's circular saw is already a fantastic tool.

 

Dewalt is a business.

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Lol seriously. Fuel was the only serious line of brushless tools for quite some time. Makita has been putting out nice units now, and FlexVolt looks great, but Milwaukee was the leader and innovator for quite some time. 

 

FlexVolt is, to my understanding, why 20v Max output has been slow and intermittent. The blitz of new gear was worth the wait I feel. Others may not, I wasn't sitting in yellows camp praying for new tools; I bought existing solutions.

 

I wouldn't expect an XR recip from them anytime soon. An XR circular saw IS coming though. 6.5" would be my guess. 

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Every manufacturer has their weak and strong points.  You may see flexvolt as a weak point, but a lot of people see it as an extremely strong point.  Far more people are going to buy into the flexvolt line from other brands than are going to quit Dewalt because the 20V line has stagnated a bit.

 

On an unrelated note, last time I checked Dewalt was a bit less expensive than Bosch, Milwaukee, or Makita (in America) comparing apples to apples on individual tools.  For some people that adds up to a couple extra tools for the same price and that's worth it even though the line might not always have the latest technology.

 

Don't believe me? Makita had a cordless miter saw half a decade before Dewalt. The catch? When the 20V Dewalt miter saw was released you could get it for half the price of the Makita, and when the Makita version new it cost more than the Flexvolt miter saw now.

 

If you want a steady, logical progression of updates Milwaukee is the only choice because they focus on the market.  Dewalt is focused on the market but can't be rushed, and Makita is just making stuff up as it goes along.

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I was not too excited about the Flexvolt line and was not going to jump in. What I like about DeWalt is I can buy them all most any where. They have great promo at most online retailers and big box stores. When CPO and others offered a free tool with purchase....I jumped in to Flexvolt with both feet. All said and done I will have 6 new tools, batteries and 3 chargers, for about $1100. I can use the Flexvolt batteries in my 20 volt tools and now no need to buy any 5 amp batteries. Did I need them....no, but after watching all the reviews had to have them.

It is taking longer to get them then hoped for but a couple months from now it will all be forgotten. When I use those free impacts I received, I will be grinning ear to ear. [emoji481]


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My initial reaction to flex volt? These guys know I blew up my 20v line and off loaded it all and went total red, do I regret it not at all, but the flex volt line isn't all what I thought it would be. In terms of portable tools meh I think they should have tried harder with their 20v line, just my own two cents but I don't own a multinational tool company. Now for me where flexvolt shines is their stationary tools, the miter and table saws are brilliant, lets face it, there's nothing probably about the giant flexvolt batteries or the Milwaukee 9.0, I bought a 6 1/2" saw to go light not put a battery to double its weight and cut over my head all day. Now am I going to run out and buy flex volt absolutely not but I do admire dewalts go at cutting the cord, over tie this line will only get better


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Err........my Festool HKC55 has an EC Tec brushless motor!!!!! Geeesh. Leaving the snobs out of the factual information Dwain!!!!! Nice!!! I'm going to take my diamond encrusted tool elsewhere!

12 hours ago, dwain said:

"should have been available ... 3 years ago". sounds a little entitled, sorry.

 

there are a total of 2 manufacturers who have a brushless circular saw or reciprocating saw, and one of them only did so in the last year. Not to mention that Dewalt's circular saw is already a fantastic tool.

 

Dewalt is a business.

 

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thing about advancement with technology is it changes all the time, companies take huge advantages of this.....this year the flex 3 yrs from now it will be the ultra or the mega or the tecflow whatever name they come up with .....it will be bigger better faster or in some cases small lighter stronger......one way or another they will be presenting it to you like they just re-invented the wheel......some of these things will be spot on others might be a hit and a miss......Companies take chances as well sell sell sell....you can't sell something with no new news.......I'm sure there are tools you own that will last a lot longer than you keep them.....

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It isnt like they abandoned 20v altogether, they release new tools dedicated to the XR line IE brushless planer the new drill and driver. They're not going to make an flexvolt multi tool or a flexvoltl um, hell im not sure what else you can make really that you could use on the jobsite that doesnt need a cord. 120v breaker maybe? Rotary hammer? Concrete saw, I mean what else really could they make that wont die in a few minutes and will equal the power of a corded/gas powered tool.

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This is realistically just a slight different take on the M18 HD9.0. They talk up compatibility, and at first I bought it, but there's never a time when I would want to use slim packs on heavy duty tools, and even on the circular saws and sawzall etc. I would rather buy a 9.0. If I did feel like working my wrist harder for little reason I could put a 9.0 on an impact driver or light...but you could do that with FlexVolt backwards compatibility. I argued the red way initially but realized I was arguing for the need to use small batteries on heavy duty tools; it seemed like stupidity to me at that point. I realize more batteries cost more money but batteries don't last forever and aren't free anyway, and speaking realistically the FlexVolt batteries are pretty good value. Put it this way; if the new M18 mitre or sds max etc couldn't run off a 5.0 or 6.0 pack I wouldn't cry. It's really just a hypothetical "get you out of a jam" scenario. 

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At first I found flexvolt such an odd ball for no reason but the more I look at them the more I like them, I'm picking up the circular saw and recip saw once its out and once they release an impact and xrp drill in that line up its goodbye 20v for me. Its no conspiracy that they will end the 20v line up I reckon maybe not in a year or so but they will. 

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I don't foresee that at all Stripped. Way too many tools don't justify a 15 cell battery hanging off their ass end. Impact driver, 16 gauge nailer, compact drill and multitool being examples I have at home. Even a hammer drill/driver seems ridiculous. End up at 1500 in lbs in a tool with too little leverage and say goodbye to you wrists. 

 

40v outdoor gear however I predict is dead, especially since the FlexVolt OPE has already been shown off. 

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impress me have them come out with that battery power in a compact size like a 1.5ah....

it's just a matter of time when they have cordless tools come out and are guarantied to run for 3-5 years with a sealed battery within the housing of the tool then the next step will be same thing that don't need charging.......you may think it is far fetched but it will happen eventually

I remember sitting in a coffee shop saying to bad they didn't have a remote starter for your car......everyone just laughed......that wasn't all that long ago.......

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32 minutes ago, Bremon said:

I don't foresee that at all Stripped. Way too many tools don't justify a 15 cell battery hanging off their ass end. Impact driver, 16 gauge nailer, compact drill and multitool being examples I have at home. Even a hammer drill/driver seems ridiculous. End up at 1500 in lbs in a tool with too little leverage and say goodbye to you wrists. 

 

40v outdoor gear however I predict is dead, especially since the FlexVolt OPE has already been shown off. 

 

Agree about the 40v, I run gas equipment but I have to say I am very interested in the flexvolt garden tools that will come in future it will be then that I make a dive into the battery garden stuff. 

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5 minutes ago, Bremon said:

I was interested in M18 OPE but if FlexVolt makes a lawnmower realistic (even if it needs two batteries) that would keep me away from Ego. The price of the 9.0 M18 means I'll likely not end up with more than 1 or 2. 

 

True also Ego needs to drop price on their high ah battery its too expensive considering what is coming out from Milwaukee etc 

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1 hour ago, Bremon said:

I don't foresee that at all Stripped. Way too many tools don't justify a 15 cell battery hanging off their ass end. Impact driver, 16 gauge nailer, compact drill and multitool being examples I have at home. Even a hammer drill/driver seems ridiculous. End up at 1500 in lbs in a tool with too little leverage and say goodbye to you wrists. 

 

40v outdoor gear however I predict is dead, especially since the FlexVolt OPE has already been shown off. 

I see 40v ope staying for quite awhile because of the run time. a 7.0 battery or however much it is at 40v may be more beneficial to an ope pro user than the added power with the 60v. Could also go the other way. The ope pro user might rather have the extra power of the 60v  than the run time of the 40v. Would depend on the user.

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1 hour ago, StrippedScrew said:

 

True also Ego needs to drop price on their high ah battery its too expensive considering what is coming out from Milwaukee etc 

 

what you have to understand is that most of the cost of batteries is in the cells.

 

Milwaukee 9Ah battery = 15 cells

 

EGO 7.5Ah battery = 42 cells (i believe). Plus each cell is wrapped in a phase-change material.

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If I didn't already have the Dewalt job site table saw, I would jump battery platforms to the flexvolt saw in a heartbeat. As it stands, it's not worth $500 upgrade. I Wish they would come out with a Bosch Reaxx/Saw Stop solution for saving fingers. Safety is really overlooked by too many job site brands.

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14 minutes ago, mig said:

If I didn't already have the Dewalt job site table saw, I would jump battery platforms to the flexvolt saw in a heartbeat. As it stands, it's not worth $500 upgrade. I Wish they would come out with a Bosch Reaxx/Saw Stop solution for saving fingers. Safety is really overlooked by too many job site brands.

 

I'd also add I wish the the saw came with a mains power adaptor but wait it doesn't run on 120v because it runs of 240?...(according to Dewalt) OK but what about us European buyers were already on the 240v system.

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Lol seriously. Fuel was the only serious line of brushless tools for quite some time. Makita has been putting out nice units now, and FlexVolt looks great, but Milwaukee was the leader and innovator for quite some time. 

Except that it was Makita, not Milwaukee who first started using brushless motors in tools in 2004. They released the first brushless impact 2009. Milwaukee launched Fuel in 2012.

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4 hours ago, HiltiWpg said:

Except that it was Makita, not Milwaukee who first started using brushless motors in tools in 2004. They released the first brushless impact 2009. Milwaukee launched Fuel in 2012.

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I'm well aware of that. "Line" is the operative word here. Unless you think putting out a brushless impact and sitting on your hands for years makes for a serious line of brushless tools? I don't think that it does, but we are all welcome to our own opinions. Let me know how many colours you could buy a brushless grinder, reciprocating saw, circular saw, high torque impact wrench, etc. in 3 years ago, and how many of those colours had a significant number of those available. 

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I'm well aware of that. "Line" is the operative word here. Unless you think putting out a brushless impact and sitting on your hands for years makes for a serious line of brushless tools? I don't think that it does, but we are all welcome to our own opinions. Let me know how many colours you could buy a brushless grinder, reciprocating saw, circular saw, high torque impact wrench, etc. in 3 years ago, and how many of those colours had a significant number of those available. 

Gotcha.

I was specifically referring to you saying "leader" and "innovator" when in fact, the only category that they lead was 12v for brushless.

If you look at impacts, Makita had several models before Milwaukee released one. Not just color variations either. They had drills, a rotary hammer, the first 1090 in-lb drill etc.

I know it seems like Milwaukee was ahead, but feel free to peruse the press release archives of both companies. It's actually pretty neat. I had no idea Makita launched so many tools ahead of Milwaukee.

Milwaukee is a heavy marketing company, they use the word innovate a little too liberally. Making a tool slightly smaller than a competitor isn't really an innovation!

Milwaukee does have a bunch of specialty tools that Makita does not have, but they didn't invent them in most cases. Like the press tools, knock out tools, nailers etc.

Milwaukee was the first one to use/patent Lithium batteries though.

Which was huge.

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Reviewing press releases... 2012 was still impact territory... compact brushless drill brushless drywall screwdriver in 2013, revised screwdriver, grinder and the torque-king hammer drill, and impact wrench in 2014. High torque impact, circular saw in 2015. Am I missing something notable? They lead with brushless screwguns, impact drivers, and compact drill. Everything else listed had a red version ahead of the teal. The 1090in lb drill is notable, but so were the first gen Fuel drills in 2012. 

 

Makita makes plenty of good products, and were trailblazers in many aspects of cordless, from sanders and planers to SDS etc. However, when we are talking about brushless tools I still stand by my original statement. I certainly don't disagree with your opinion on Milwaukee marketing though. I could go the rest of my life without seeing "10x stronger*" "4x battery life*", etc.

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The difference is milwaukee aims at a complete line while makita is all over the place and the way milwaukee announces tools early exacerbates that. Plus you know if another brand makes something thats a hit you can just wait a year for the milwaukee version instead of switching platforms.  Makita might just decide not to update something for no good reason.

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