Jronman Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I understand peoples argument for not buying flexvolt because you can't use 20v batteries with flexvolt tools. It's a legitimate argument even though Im not sure why you would want to use a 20v pack on a flexvolt tool except for the fact they are smaller and more portable. Lets talk Milwaukee. Milwaukee touts all m18 batteries work with all m18 tools but is this realistically the case? Sure you can put a 2.0 compact battery on the new fuel hd miter saw or other fuel hd tools and they will run but who actually is going to put a compact battery on a fuel hd tool? You get less power and less runtime. At the very least I could see someone using a 4.0 or 5.0 m18 pack on fuel hd tools but they still got less power and runtime than the 9.0. Do you guys think the ability to use any m18 battery on a fuel hd tool is a good argument for buying fuel hd tools instead of flexvolt tools? I'm just not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I think they are the same. HD9.0 brings its own class of HD tools that you would never use a compact battery on. It's basically just bragging rights. They had to rerelease the 2361 light to claim backwards compatibility. A 5.0 gets less than half the runtime of a 9.0 (despite the numbers lol), maybe 10 mins on the SDS Max, if it doesn't overheat first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunicy Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I have used my 5.0 on my SDS max and noticed no difference. I use the 9.0 on all my tools. I haven't used a 4.0 on the SDS max yet, and I don't own anything smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makita_2233 Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 16 minutes ago, lunicy said: I have used my 5.0 on my SDS max and noticed no difference. I use the 9.0 on all my tools. I haven't used a 4.0 on the SDS max yet, and I don't own anything smaller. Do you a notice a performance boast with the 9.0 on the sds max ? Compared with the 5.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glass Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Well if my miter saw burned through my 9.0 battery any 5.0 will be useable until the 9.0 had recharged. Not on flexvolt. Makes sense to me. I would not choose to use the high demand tools with smaller batteries but gets you out of a jam until you can afford enough 9.0 batteries. I cannot see why others do not understand this user friendly Milwaukee game plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenOddosFence Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 2 hours ago, 2448jman said: I understand peoples argument for not buying flexvolt because you can't use 20v batteries with flexvolt tools. It's a legitimate argument even though Im not sure why you would want to use a 20v pack on a flexvolt tool except for the fact they are smaller and more portable. Lets talk Milwaukee. Milwaukee touts all m18 batteries work with all m18 tools but is this realistically the case? Sure you can put a 2.0 compact battery on the new fuel hd miter saw or other fuel hd tools and they will run but who actually is going to put a compact battery on a fuel hd tool? You get less power and less runtime. At the very least I could see someone using a 4.0 or 5.0 m18 pack on fuel hd tools but they still got less power and runtime than the 9.0. Do you guys think the ability to use any m18 battery on a fuel hd tool is a good argument for buying fuel hd tools instead of flexvolt tools? I'm just not sure. I was under the impression you could use 20v batteries on flex volt tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnarlyCarl Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 34 minutes ago, SevenOddosFence said: I was under the impression you could use 20v batteries on flex volt tools. No, it's the other way around. I do like having the ability to use any of my m18 batteries with the tools, it is quite understandable why any one would think the same way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnarlyCarl Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Bremon said: I think they are the same. HD9.0 brings its own class of HD tools that you would never use a compact battery on. It's basically just bragging rights. They had to rerelease the 2361 light to claim backwards compatibility. A 5.0 gets less than half the runtime of a 9.0 (despite the numbers lol), maybe 10 mins on the SDS Max, if it doesn't overheat first. Yes this is true: .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 The 2361 I got last week is the new one as well. More lumens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggie Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 I have read for a while but just joined the forum. I work ag construction building grain bins and grain elevators. It's pretty common to carry two power tools up a 100' grain leg, one being more high demand like a grinder or Sawzall and other being an impact or drill. We currently only have 4.0 and 5.0 but I hope to get my hands on a couple 9.0. For me it's critical to have compatibility because it's the difference between swapping batteries between the two tools I have to get that one more cut or climbing 100'. This is also why flexvolt is a huge turn off for me. I like the idea of having a cordless grinder that has the power of a corded and let's be honest the fuel grinder is good but not corded power good. So now let's say if I want to carry a flexvolt grinder and impact up to the top of a grain bin. I have to buy another bigger and heavier flexvolt battery to put in the impact just so I have the compatibility for that one more cut with the grinder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 5 extra cells. That's the weight difference. And it's a 6.0 in your impact. I can see why guys like it but like I said, it's a "get you out of a jam" convenience that I likely wouldn't find I needed much. I can see why people feel more confident with it but when FlexVolt batteries are so much cheaper than 9.0 I would rather just take FlexVolt batteries and stick them in the 20v max tools. Problem solved. I don't think Milwaukee's mitre saw is the one to use as an example either. By the time you're through 400 cuts you're probably ready to do something with all that material lol. Grinders I can understand. Sawzall I can understand. I've ran the hell out of 5.0s on those with my Fuel gear. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glass Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 i like my m18 fuel grinder, sawzall, and 7 1/4 skil saw. They all work well with my 5.0 batteries. I have handled the flexvolt tools and with the batteries they are bulkier. I like the option to use the smaller lighter batteries for quick work and I can always add the 9.0 for bigger jobs. I could careless if flexvolt is more powerful, because m18 fuel is powerful enough so I need no more power. There will be deals to be had. the miter saw is 599 with 2 batteries and a charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glass Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 this may not matter to many but the 6 amp flexvolt battery is 2.3 lbs and the m 18 6 amp battery is 1.6 lbs and the 5.0 is 1.5 lbs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 But when the 9.0 drops it will be moot. The 2.0/6.0 was a misstep imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Julian Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 For me at least... bottom line, I'm invested in Milwaukee, so that's what I'm gonna buy. Period. (Whenever I save up $599). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 That's where most lines are drawn in the sand; whatever batteries people already have is where most will stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comp56 Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 what I like about the Milwaukee direction is I can get a 9.ah battery and slap it on my existing tools and see the benefits I don't need new tools to make the battery work properly or to it's full potential .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 That's the main benefit they have over FlexVolt. The main benefit FlexVolt has is more robust current flow to handle more powerful tools. Have I ran into a situation where my 2731 isn't capable enough for me? Not really. Does that mean I would be fine if the power tools arms race stood still where we currently are? Not even remotely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 49 minutes ago, comp56 said: what I like about the Milwaukee direction is I can get a 9.ah battery and slap it on my existing tools and see the benefits I don't need new tools to make the battery work properly or to it's full potential .... Yeah it's really about simplicity. I really hate major platform shifts where they have certain one way compatibles that will end up annoying people down the road where you can use the new battery on an old tool but your old one won't work with the new tool etc. Sure eventually everyone will be on the new stuff but the old stuff always lingers for a long time. Heck Dewalt just released the lithium battery adapter for their old Nicad packs not too long ago! I just ordered the Fuel miter deal with 2x9Ah batteries for $540, 10% off coupon on HD, and while I prob won't use those big packs on my impact it's nice to know all my tools and lights and vac will freely use the same batteries and the miter can use the smaller packs in a pinch even if I never need to. I don't have to remember the rules for certain conpatobilities and can grab any tool and any pack without thinking. There is nothing wrong with flexvolt and I can see why Dewalt did what they did to maintain some sort of compatibility but like it or not it is a new platform and that alway brings some pain along with it. I also think they like the fact that they can label a pack 6 amp for example, the 20v setting, and avoid mentioning it's only 2.0 amp at 60v. They want their cake and eat it too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comp56 Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 thing is years ago not many people had 20 Milwaukee tools hangin off their garage wall, basically because they were higher priced tools that the pro's only bought, a regular joe home owner didn't need to spend that kind of money for tools around the house however now a days these tools have come to almost full circle where as not only the pro's only buy them but home owners as well, in say that prices have come down because of the market leveling out. Now this is also with many other brands as well so in order to make some revenue they must be different from each other example, One Key, Flex-volt, ect ect...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmcmillan Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Part of prices coming down is production scale. People buy new tools instead of keeping the same ones for centuries. Money goes into development making the old tools obsolete so people buy more. Only thing that bothers me is when they appear to intentionally "leave room for growth" in a tool so they can make it obsolete with a new model next year but it's a small price to pay. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comp56 Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 1 hour ago, jeffmcmillan said: Part of prices coming down is production scale. People buy new tools instead of keeping the same ones for centuries. Money goes into development making the old tools obsolete so people buy more. Only thing that bothers me is when they appear to intentionally "leave room for growth" in a tool so they can make it obsolete with a new model next year but it's a small price to pay. haha a few year back ATI video cards for computers got caught doing something like that, they introduced a video card with 32MB of memory, 3 months later they released a newer one with 64mb and shortly after they did someone realized it was the exact same card with the memory unlocked so they produced the cards all the same so with a software update they could unlock the memory.....sneaky ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 3 hours ago, comp56 said: haha a few year back ATI video cards for computers got caught doing something like that, they introduced a video card with 32MB of memory, 3 months later they released a newer one with 64mb and shortly after they did someone realized it was the exact same card with the memory unlocked so they produced the cards all the same so with a software update they could unlock the memory.....sneaky ... This kind of thing has been going on A LOT longer than that. While IBM's billing and leasing arrangements for their old heavy iron mainframe business was complicated they used to have models that were the same across a wide range of the high end market, think super expensive to crazy super expensive, and the only upgrade between some tiers was a technician showing up on site to cut a resistor. Essentially it was like throwing a jumper on a modern computer and you got way more performance. I think on some machines it actually enabled idle CPU's or even removed CPU loops that sapped performance artificially. The crazy thing was they would even tell the techs to waste time all day and look like they were doing something useful because they didn't want customers to "feel ripped off" that all the tech did was show up for five minutes and snip a wire 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comp56 Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 46 minutes ago, JerryNY said: This kind of thing has been going on A LOT longer than that. While IBM's billing and leasing arrangements for their old heavy iron mainframe business was complicated they used to have models that were the same across a wide range of the high end market, think super expensive to crazy super expensive, and the only upgrade between some tiers was a technician showing up on site to cut a resistor. Essentially it was like throwing a jumper on a modern computer and you got way more performance. I think on some machines it actually enabled idle CPU's or even removed CPU loops that sapped performance artificially. The crazy thing was they would even tell the techs to waste time all day and look like they were doing something useful because they didn't want customers to "feel ripped off" that all the tech did was show up for five minutes and snip a wire well pretty tempting when you can buy a 2"x 4" for $3 cut it in half and sell both halves for $4 each 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glass Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Could I have the 10% code. Thx. On a side part of the equation is if one likes the actual tools. For instance the Dewalt miter saw is a battery operated 780. I have always found this to be a good framer or exterior saw. The milwaukee looks to be more of a finish saw. The Dewalt right angle drill is huge has anybody handled it ? It's like The Hulk. A buddy just returned the Dewalt miter saw because for $800 it's not worth it as he and crew only got a half day on one charge and that baby uses 2 batteries at a time. This could be an issue as Dewalt is all power no runtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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