jkeating3 Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Cr8ondt said: I laughed my ass off, During NPS DeWalt was silent, quietly letting Milwaukee have their day and during DeWalt's event Milwaukee was literally throwing a temper tantrum.... Big red: "Look at me guys" "so what they have a dual voltage battery,whe have a 9.0". Milwaukee even launched a website within minutes of the FlexVolt announcement comparing the non existing 9.0 to the FV 2/6.0. I look forward to more questionable (or misleading) stats from Red this year. I also expect they will try to shoot for the moon. They won't like that they got out-innovated last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr8ondt Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, jkeating3 said: I look forward to more questionable (or misleading) stats from Red this year. I also expect they will try to shoot for the moon. They won't like that they got out-innovated last year. HAHA, can't wait to see all the new LED lights they come out with!!!!!! they should play off Ryobi's theme... "One battery, 100+ lights, oh and we have some tools too." I need to submit that to their marketing team!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 43 minutes ago, jkeating3 said: I look forward to more questionable (or misleading) stats from Red this year. I also expect they will try to shoot for the moon. They won't like that they got out-innovated last year. They really did have a fit last year. "we have a 10" sliding mitre!" Dewalt "we have a 12" hybrid sliding mitre" Milwaukee "new batteries! But new batteries! Ours uses same old batteries! Batteries!!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeating3 Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 53 minutes ago, Bremon said: They really did have a fit last year. "we have a 10" sliding mitre!" Dewalt "we have a 12" hybrid sliding mitre" Milwaukee "new batteries! But new batteries! Ours uses same old batteries! Batteries!!!!" "Look how much more run time our larger battery has than their smaller battery!!" They might as well have said that their 3.0 batteries are better than DeWalts 2.0 batteries... 1 hour ago, Cr8ondt said: HAHA, can't wait to see all the new LED lights they come out with!!!!!! they should play off Ryobi's theme... "One battery, 100+ lights, oh and we have some tools too." I need to submit that to their marketing team!! That was last year's NPS in a nutshell to me. "Check out our sweet lights and also here are some Me-too-ls." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Last years NPS was a rehash of stuff from the year before that still hadn't made it to market, a new season of heated gear walking down the runway, the next generation of Chinese hand tools, levels, knives, and a couple oddball gems like the transfer pump and trade specific goodies. For the general contractor or woodworker Dewalt's reveal was basically non-stop "and you could use this, this would speed you up, this is more powerful and affordable than Milwaukee, this is safer to operate than Milwaukee, and this is something Milwaukee never imagined". I'm a huge Milwaukee fan and I bought my first yellow tool a month after NPS16 and FlexVolt reveal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeating3 Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 I really feel like this year was a lot of wins for DeWalt, and there really started to be cracks in Milwaukee's armour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboS1ice Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 6 hours ago, jkeating3 said: I really feel like this year was a lot of wins for DeWalt, and there really started to be cracks in Milwaukee's armour. I disagree with that, what is there in the dewalt line that you can't get in milwaukee? Framing nailer Metal Connector Nailer Rebar Cutter What does yellow not have? Full range of work lights Oil Impulse Driver A functioning 12v line with very job specific tools, PVC sheer, copper tubing cutter, right angle impact Water Transfer pump... get my drift? Not that one is superior to the other and the flex volt system is cool for stationary tools but it forced Dewalt users into yet another platform, where the other brands work with two packs or just 1 pack, yellows got some great tools but looking at the big picture is one line up really superior to the other any more? Not really, the competition has heated up tremendously but us tool guys just benefit from the extensive line ups and tools available, its about time Dewalt released a whole mess load of tools to keep guys from jumping ship, besides Chicago Electric is where its at bro!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr8ondt Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 @JimboS1ice, so what kind of LED will you be presenting at this year at NPS17? ROFL... Just poking fun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboS1ice Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 [mention=51951]JimboS1ice[/mention], so what kind of LED will you be presenting at this year at NPS17? ROFL... Just poking fun [emoji14]No batteries required either ?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggie Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 I'm sure dewalts offerings for wood working and carpentry have been great recently but they definitely have their cracks. I'm in ag construction where we do steel and grain bin erecting as well as metal fab. We had been exclusively dewalt for 15 years but have started switching over to milwaukee the last 3 years. My main tool is a 1/2 compact impact wrench and a close second would be a cordless grinder. Two tools that I think really benefit from being brushless yet dewalt still doesn't have them. I did buy a flexvolt grinder which is a nice tool but it's really like having another battery platform and doesn't work as a system with 20v max tools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 I always say, trade specific tools: go Milwaukee. At this stage I'd say GC/wood working go Dewalt. I'm very happy to have an extensive line of both in my collection. Plus if I want hardboiled eggs on the jobsite I only need to drill a few decent size holes with my 2704 and that little beast is ready to boil some water, right @JimboS1ice lol. Milwaukee does have a TrueView obsession that's plain to see. Dewalt got my money for woodworking gear because Milwaukee nailers belong at the firing range with all that kickback, their planer is brushed, and their mitre saw has brutal dust collection that won't work very well in my home shop. It took this long for Dewalt to eat into my Milwaukee budget because their releases were so sparse and half-assed I thought they might be leaving the tool business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Dewalt has been filling the gaps the last year now with trade specific, but that is correct, if you only work a single trade Milwaukee is still far away the leader right now. Where we'll be in 5 years... I think that gap is going to close fast if not completely. The innovation of tool lines is coming to a conclusion, the tech that drives them is all that will be left to change. The innovative portion of the industry is destined to stagnate, leaving lots of evolutionary steps with very few revolutionary ones once all options that make profits are developed already. The step to flexvolt style solutions may very well be the last revolutionary thing to come to tools until micro high energy fuel cells come down the line to replace the aging lithium batteries we use today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeating3 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 @JimboS1iceYou're not wrong, but compare that to a year ago or two years ago, and you'll see what I mean. No Chicago Electric in Canada. Can I interest you in some Mastercraft? Lifetime warranty on hand tools. No questions asked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Framer joe Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Dewalt is for construction/ carpentry guys with some hope for plumbing ...I don't get the whole flex is not compatible with 20v max thing .? If I want to use a real circular saw for framing I use flex,with flex batteries,, if I'm in the yard and need to cut a couple things I grab my 20v max saw,with a 5ah...I'm never going to grab a flex tool and want a 5ah or lower on it.....Milwaukee makes great tools ,I have many...some Bosch some, some Makita, but mostly ..Dewalt .. . ..what new system are you buying into ? Buy a flex saw or grinder or mitre and use a flex battery then use it on any max tool...people are upset why? They want to use a 20v battery on a flex tool ? What moron wants to put a 5ah or lower on a high battery draw tool ? If all you need is a 2ah battery then use a 20v tool..Ya you ..CAN put a 3ah on a Milwaukee mitre saw but why would you...See flex is designed not for DIY ..but for Contractors who NEED BIG POWA...BIG RUNTIME..BIG EVERYTHING,,,,!! ..If I want to grab my big 9ah Milwaukee battery and put it in my 12" mitre ,,I can't..or my table saw ,I can't...or a real powerful circular saw ,I can't...so my one battery platform from Milwaukee has big drawbacks...as in I don't have ...the tools...to shove the battery into... . ...if I'm a plumber I'm probably all ..RED... if I was DIY I'm probably all Makita.(massive line up) ,,but for a contractor I'm YELLOW and BLACK ... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee_man_stan Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 19 hours ago, jkeating3 said: I really feel like this year was a lot of wins for DeWalt, and there really started to be cracks in Milwaukee's armour. I feel just the opposite, And agree with @JimboS1ice, Milwaukee just didn't need to get into the big picture here, I think Dewalt just couldn't keep up with Milwaukee and had to try something to get everyone's attention. And I think they did a good job, using Flexvolt for leverage between them and Milwaukee but in the end If milwaukee comes out with something more innovated than flexvolt capabilites I'm sure the never ending race will keep on going. To me If those battery's get any bigger I'm going to have to hit the gym! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 You can frame plenty with a 2731 with a 5.0. Even more with a 9.0. Or use two 18v batteries and have even more power than FlexVolt with the new Makita rear-handle. A circular saw isn't the tool I'd go to to prove that point. Moreso the high draw tools like you said. It will be interesting to see comparisons between SDS Max Fuel and FlexVolt. The 20700 cells make all the difference. NPS17 will be interesting. "New M18 Fuel batteries: Fuel 6.0, Fuel 9.0: 1.1x redder than FlexVolt, 10x more innovative than standard RedLithium". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee_man_stan Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Bremon said: You can frame plenty with a 2731 with a 5.0. Even more with a 9.0. Or use two 18v batteries and have even more power than FlexVolt with the new Makita rear-handle. A circular saw isn't the tool I'd go to to prove that point. Moreso the high draw tools like you said. It will be interesting to see comparisons between SDS Max Fuel and FlexVolt. The 20700 cells make all the difference. NPS17 will be interesting. "New M18 Fuel batteries: Fuel 6.0, Fuel 9.0: 1.1x redder than FlexVolt, 10x more innovative than standard RedLithium". Yep as I said their never will be a "stop" on tool innovation lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Unless you want to start doubling up batteries, etc. there's going to come a point where Milwaukee can't keep up to Makita and FlexVolt with power. It's great that they want to keep forward-compatibility but there's only so much they can do. They'll end up with 20700 batteries and the runtime and draw will make new tools a possibility, but running a current 3.0-5.0 on it will mean your runtime is limited enough to be disappointing. It will all but force you to upgrade batteries, but for the "but what if I need just one more cut" guys will be satiated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcv76 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 I think the next leap in a few years will be getting current Flexvolt power out of smaller batteries though some sort of more dense cells. I do think the size of the batteries is getting a little out of hand. I have some Flexvolt and they are great but are ridiculous on smaller tools like drills and multi tools. I think Bosch has the right idea with 20700 6ah batteries that are 35% smaller than the flex volt batteries. Use that technology with the Makita x2 idea and you have the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Dewalt's XR 6.0 for 20v Max is the same concept. 2 parallel sets of 5 20700 cells. The performance is greater than the 2.0/6.0 FlexVolt of 3 parralel sets of 5 18650 cells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jronman Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Milwaukee may have a bunch of tools that DeWALT doesn't have but are they tools the average guy would use? I see Milwaukee as being more a company geared towards plumbers, mechanical, electricians and hvac/r first and Rough/Finish/general carpentry last. I see DeWALT as being geared more towards the rough/finish/general carpenter first and the m,e,p,hvac/r guys last. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Very true @Jronman and as time passes and the companies stay in the same systems, as mentioned, those differences will disappear. Except in the 12v lines lol. Dewalt is practically a decade behind where that's concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggie Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 I get that some high demand tools require more power and run time than 18v battery can provide. In those situations I can justify a second battery platform like flexvolt. My biggest complaint is the missing brushless tools in the 20v line though. On our work trucks we carry 10 batteries consisting of 4.0 and 5.0. With crews of 2-4 people those batteries run impact wrenches and drivers, grinders, drills, and recip. Saws. Although the flexvolt grinder might be more capable it requires a set of batteries just for that tool and for a grinder it's nice to be able to cycle at least 3 batteries. I personally prefer the fuel grinder even if it isnt as powerful because it works on the same battery platform. I bought the flexvolt to be a shop grinder. At the welding table I already have a welding cord, plasma cutting cord, and two ground cords. So it was a way to get rid of the 5th cord. In the shop I don't care as much about compatibility because I'm closer to a charger and don't have to worry about storage space like you do on a service truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 So, realistically, for missing brushless tools you're talking about a grinder and compact impact wrench? Brushless high torque: available. Impact drivers: available. Drills: available. Recip: coming soon. The backwards compatibility of FlexVolt packs means those batteries work on everything, and with the new 9.0 FlexVolt batteries you get more than twice the runtime of a 5.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggie Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Yep, a 20v brushless grinder and compact impact wrench is all it would take to make me happy haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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