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Milwaukee's Future?


Jronman

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So I just watched a video and at the end I got some info about the future of Milwaukee. To start off Milwaukee claims they will be able to stick with m18 for the next 10 years. To do this they will be switching to 21mm diameter by 700mm long battery cells or 21700 for short. Allows for more current draw on larger tools or more runtime on less power hungry tools. 2 confirmed products coming are a cordless table saw and a chainsaw. Another thing is more carbide is coming. What are your guys thoughts? You guys got any other info? Heres the video. 

 

 

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If? ? Hate to be the bearer of bad news but M28 is basically already dead in the sense of getting new tools. Basically you can get batteries from them and that's about it. 

 

21700 cells are 21mm by 70mm, not 700. That's why Tesla/Panasonic ones are just called 2170s. Just like 18650 are 18mm by 65mm. 700mm is more than 2 feet...

 

I think their 18-36v chainsaw is probably dated the day it comes out. Other manufacturers have had time to iterate and improve, I expect a tool that's 3/4 decent like the 10" sliding mitre. The table saw likely won't impress me either, 36v compared to the 120v Max hybrid 10" Dewalt that will likely beat them to market by a wide margin... not holding my breath for any disruptive innovation.

 

What I am looking forward to is continued shrinking of M12 Fuel drivers and impacts, new lighting, them continuing to iterate in areas they are already dominant; right angle drills, impact wrenches of all sizes, reciprocating saws, etc. I'm also a big fan of Milwaukee pushing into new areas where they have little-to-no competition; M12 stapler, M18 heat gun, M12 soldering iron, etc. That stuff has me so excited to spend more money on red again. Stuff like the Fuel Mud Mixer look innovative and convenient as well. 

 

The Milwaukee directions I like are the Milwaukee that breaks new ground, and the Milwaukee that competes with itself (my Fuel Sawzall is how old now and is still the king; the M18 Fuel Hackzall looks like it makes all other compact angled recips look like garbage, if they don't do that to themselves *20v Max*). 

 

The Milwaukee that makes me look at other brands and alternatives is the Milwaukee that plays catch-up endlessly, shows up so late to the party it can no longer be described as fashionable, and smacks itself in the face like Sideshow Bob walking on rakes; nailers, mitre saw, etc. By the looks of their new 7.25" mitre saw it looks like they pay attention and listen to criticism at least ?.

 

Also very much looking forward to carbide Torch blades, but way more than that I'm so happy I waited on multi-material 3-tooth hole saws and can buy carbide Big Hawgs for that purpose when they launch ?

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I just hope they dont pull a "dewalt 18v" trying to stick with a battery platform for too long.  I know its a fine line between holding yourself back and pissing people off.  I guess time will tell if new battery tech can actually make an 18v tool more powerful.  A grinder is probably my number two tool and the power of the dewalt 60v sure is impressive.  For stationary tools and even saws and rotary hammers a 36v dual battery is fine but a grinder with two batteries looks bulky to me (new 36v makita).

 

Being a impact wrench junky I think a m12 impact wrench with 125ft/lbs+ and a little more compact would be a pretty sweet tool.

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There's no way in hell M18x2 isn't their future; they get backwards compatibility, "M36" power, and more efficiency with more intelligently designed batteries. They've already found the limits of 18v. Look how easily the Fuel mitre stalls on bevel cuts. For those of us using multiple brands how many times have you seen an overheated battery that doesn't say M18 on it? There's a reason NPS17 had basically 0 high-draw tools revealed. Even the mud mixer, while awesome, is just a tradeoff of RPM for more torque, a more robust gearbox (5 planetary rather than 3?) and a more ergonomic bodystyle. 

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3 hours ago, Bremon said:

There's no way in hell M18x2 isn't their future

They've already found the limits of 18v

Milwaukee claims moving to the 21700 cells will allow them to stick with 18v yet give more power to higher draw tools. Sounds like a reasonable claim. I don't know if it will be x2 or Flexvolt power but we wont know until we get our hands on them.

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18v with 21700 cells won't outdo a more efficient motor with slightly less efficient cells, and if Makita moves to 20700, and with Dewalt already making strides into a X2 system there's just no possible outcome in which 15 21700s outmatch 20-30 20700s without having laughable runtime and a built in frying pan for the eggs you'll be able to cook with the heat off the 18v tool lol. Also worth noting is whether they plan on "sticking with 18v" or "sticking with M18", as those have two different potential connotations. 

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Switching up to larger cells can only be a good thing, but X2? Not a fan to be honest, prefer the simplicity of only changing and charging one pack. Faffing around with two packs every time would become tiresome very quickly. I don't like the idea of the extra weight either. I know a guy with an old brushed, 36V lithium Bosch, awesome machine. The efficiency of it is incredible, but because the packs are only 2.6ah, it's not too heavy. It's outperformed corded drills in the past, by that I mean we burnt out two corded drills before trying the task with his Bosch 36V, which didn't break a sweat. 

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X2 makes sense. Do you really want a 6 lb battery on an impact or drill?

Probably not. Now you need two battery styles.

 

21700 are wider and longer than the typical 18650. The battery pack is gonna be quite a bit bigger too.

I look at how ridiculous batteries are becoming and that's another reason I love my makita batteries.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

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X2 doesn't mean you're going to get 36v impact drivers and multitools... you get 36v on tools that are either mainly stationary, or compete in a segment that's typically heavy to begin with; saws, OPE, SDS, etc. The idea that swapping out two batteries at lunch rather than one is such an inconvenience that it isn't worth the power and runtime is laughable, we are getting to the point where all-day runtime isn't unrealistic for a lot of guys. 

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Hmm, but for me no cordless sds comes close to all day running! As a sparks who's required to chase entire walls for cable containment, cordless just don't cut it. I love using them, but for me their runtimes are pitiful. Even the 54 Volt sds doesn't run for long, but that's because the 2/6 packs are only offering 2ah at 54 Volts. For that kind of work, it really needs to be corded or, dare I say it, a 9 Amp X2 arrangement? If we do see more X2 configurations, I really hope they don't increase the actual power of the machines, that would defeat the object of getting more efficiency. 

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There are definitely cases where cordless just won't cut it, period. All day demo with a cordless Sawzall killing batteries relentlessly every 20 minutes sounds like a great way to burn through 600-700 worth of batteries every year.

 

A grinder you can stall by leaning into it could use X2. A mitre saw you can stall with the slightest amount of lateral pressure on a bevel cut could use X2. Milwaukee's heard-of-but-unseen table saw sure as hell needs to be x2 or it will be a 2731 motor spinning an 8"+ blade that won't handle ripping worth a damn. 

 

Cordless SDS for myself is mainly useful for tapcons and drop anchors setting up machinery and pallet racks. Milwaukee's SDS Max with 20 mins of chipping to me sounds like 20 mins of something I'll delegate to someone else, and give them a cord so they can do it longer than 20 mins ?. 

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I'd agree I love my cordless sds plus, it's great for a couple larger anchors or a lot of smaller anchors you don't have to drag a cord.  But if we anchor a grain bin where you're drilling 30+ holes 3/4"x 12" deep a cordless tool just isn't going to perform.  Especially if you happen to run into some rebar it'll use up a 5.0 in two holes.  Maybe a sds max would be better but I would guess the true all day performance isn't there yet.

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When we're fixing floor track down, that's two hundred plus holes at 5.5 to 6mm, perhaps 50mm deep, that eats through packs, but in that example cordless is still preferable because floor track can cover a large floor area which is a ball-ache with cords. 

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1 hour ago, Tug said:

When we're fixing floor track down, that's two hundred plus holes at 5.5 to 6mm, perhaps 50mm deep, that eats through packs, but in that example cordless is still preferable because floor track can cover a large floor area which is a ball-ache with cords. 

Yes one big thing I look at for cordless vs corded is how big of an area will I usually operate in. 

For many things, it needs to be stationary and corded is fine. For many other things, I need to be mobile, different rooms, up and down ladders etc and cords would make me pull my hair out. 

One thing I got recently was a metal cutting circ saw the Skilsaw OUTLAW.... While I originally was drooling over a fuel metal saw, I quickly found I simply needed to keep the saw at my cutting  station by my work van and keep it plugged in. I haven't needed to move around with this saw, so it became a non issue. 

If I'm cutting wood for blocking, I want cordless because I can use my light m12 saw and can cut the wood close by my work inside. You can hold the wood with one hand while you're cutting it, but I don't care to play with fate like that while cutting metal! 

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In half a year we'll be getting a new Makita X2 brushless SDS plus and an X2 brushless SDS Max. 

 

With 2 6.0 amp batteries on them that's the highest possible amount of energy of cordless tools today ( 216 watt hours of energy ) and the load spread over 20 cells Which helps with heat and efficiency.

 

I'm very interested too see how they will perform.

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X2 doesn't mean you're going to get 36v impact drivers and multitools... you get 36v on tools that are either mainly stationary, or compete in a segment that's typically heavy to begin with; saws, OPE, SDS, etc. The idea that swapping out two batteries at lunch rather than one is such an inconvenience that it isn't worth the power and runtime is laughable, we are getting to the point where all-day runtime isn't unrealistic for a lot of guys. 

I was speaking about how ridiculous the Flexvolt battery is on an impact or drill.
It's comical.
I like having a reasonable size and weight for most of my tools, then I slap 2 batteries on my Rotary Hammer and go to town. I have 2x Dual chargers and downtime is non-existent.
Flexvolt is great for a stationary tool, but a joke for most one handed tools.



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