Makita DHR400 SDS Max Cordless X2 Rotary Hammer

[ToolBane]

6 hours ago, kornomaniac said:

I think coptool did a bad job on this video. Lots of inaccuracies imo

What did you feel were some of the video shortcomings? This isn’t actually a tool I have a personal interest/expectation in getting I just happened to come across the review.

[kornomaniac]

6 hours ago, ToolBane said:

What did you feel were some of the video shortcomings? This isn’t actually a tool I have a personal interest/expectation in getting I just happened to come across the review.

 Thé 11 Joules of the Makita are wrong ( even tho it says so on the Makita USA website )

 

Stating the Makita as a 10 amp capacity. ( If it was 18v ...yes. but it's 2 batteries in series so it's 36v 5 amp )

 

Stating the flexvolt as a 9 amp. On a flexvolt tool it's 3 amp.

 

Kinda disagree on the point giving for run time. DeWalt and Makita do exactly as many holes so points should be even.  If you're drilling holes you wouldn't care what numbers are on the battery. The amount of holes drilled on a charge is what matters.

 

And ( I could be wrong here because of limited experience ) but I don't see the use of a drill only function without hammering on a 7 kg SDS max breaker which coptool praised the DeWalt for.

 

 

Just felt more like a random YouTube test because of the inaccuracies then a decent review from a power tool website.

[HiltiWpg]

If you look at the comments on YouTube, they try to justify it with a convoluted argument about how they are all flexvolt or some other BS.

It was just poorly done. Period.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[ToolBane]

I’m perfectly happy to agree that quipping about the Makita achieving “merely” the same run time with slightly more power available then docking it points over it was a little tacky, although i’ve seen other reviewers do the same to the benefit of Milwaukee and Dewalt...while I haven’t noticed Makita get awarded extra points when performing the same with less available battery power. I have no idea if certain other manufacturers may be fussing more about comparative battery capacities during the comparisons when they can turn things to their advantage. On the other hand, it’s kind of funny when competitors are getting these handouts and Makita wins anyway.

[Biggie]

In the end I think they all placed where they should have but the whole video just seemed poor.  I've always thought Jay from cop tools was fairly knowledgeable about tools and put out decent reviews.  But I wasnt impressed by these three reviewers, it felt like they were more actors than tool guys/gals.  

[kat]

I don't understand how can a 36V tool have the same power as a 60V tool ?!

[aessu]

6 hours ago, kat said:

I don't understand how can a 36V tool have the same power as a 60V tool ?!

Because a 36V Tool draws more current.

[ToolBane]

8 hours ago, kat said:

I don't understand how can a 36V tool have the same power as a 60V tool ?!

 

Power = Voltage x Current

 

[kornomaniac]

12 hours ago, kat said:

I don't understand how can a 36V tool have the same power as a 60V tool ?!

 

The idea that more voltage gives more ( potential ) power is an old idea that was mostly correct for brushed tools. 

 

Pretty much all tools these days are brushless tools. They are electronically controlled instead of using brushes for their commutation.

 

For brushless tools the voltage and amperage of batteries almost don't matter.  You'll notice from the movie that the 18v milwaukee SDS max is some slower then the 36v or 54v SDS max hammers but not even close to double as slow ( as the voltage would imply ).

 

That leaves us, customers, with no apparent and easy way to compare modern tools.  ( Where 10 years ago with brushed tools  the voltage and amps were an indicator of what too expect. )

 

http://www.toolboxbuzz.com/cordless-tools/reciprocating-saw/cordless-reciprocating-saw-high-capacity-head-head/

Here is another interesting comparison. 18v milwaukee and 36v Makita recip clearly perform better then 54v flexvolt recip saw.

 

 

We have seen ( from examples in practise ) that voltage and amps of the battery don't tell us anything about the performance we can expect.

 

A thing you can compare is the total available energy in a battery setup. Since the voltage and amps don't matter we can start comparing the total energy capacity of a battery setup. Both milwaukee with a 18v 9amp battery and DeWalt with a 54v 3amp amp have a total capacity of 162 watt hours ( volt X amps ).

 

You can expect somewhat equal potential performance from these batteries.   DeWalt uses newer and more efficient cells in their big flexvolt which gives them a few percent advantage. Higher voltages also give a few percentage efficiency advantage.   But milwaukee just makes a better sawzall then DeWalt. The better tool will perform better in the end even if the DeWalt has a small battery advantage.

 

 

[Makita_2233]

On 31/03/2018 at 5:02 AM, kornomaniac said:

 Thé 11 Joules of the Makita are wrong ( even tho it says so on the Makita USA website )

 

The Japanese specs are 11.4 joules, same as the cored model. I’m not sure why the euro rating is different, but that’s how they have rated it.

 

[kornomaniac]

7 hours ago, Makita_2233 said:

 

 Thé 11 Joules spec doesn't, in any way, compare to the joules specced of other Makita ( or any other Bosch DeWalt metabo, etc.... Rotary of around 7 kg weight ).

[kat]

In any case it's waaay heavier and pricyer than any corded model with the same power specs.

And I suspect that the motor is not beefy enough because they tend to make these brushless motor smaller.

I don't know if the cordless advantage is worth having these drawbacks.

 

Quote

Pretty much all tools these days are brushless tools. They are electronically controlled instead of using brushes for their commutation.

But the Dewalt 60V is brushless too. And I doubt that current commercial brushless motors are much more efficient. They are more like marketing bs. The Makita DHP458 drill for example is brushed  and produces almost the same torque as the brushless DHP481 which is also heavier.

[ToolBane]

I don’t know if efficiency number for power tool motors are easy to find at all but 540-sized hobby motors (think 1.25”x1.5” or so) brushed units struggle to get much over 70% efficiency while brushless can get into the mid-90s. There’s variance of course depending on how well engineered an individual motor of either type is but the ceiling will always be higher with brushless. And brushless motors can output a lot more power from any given volume as well. That’s going to be a close comparison with a lot of smaller power tools.

[kornomaniac]

20 hours ago, kat said:

In any case it's waaay heavier and pricyer than any corded model with the same power specs.

And I suspect that the motor is not beefy enough because they tend to make these brushless motor smaller.

I don't know if the cordless advantage is worth having these drawbacks.

 

But the Dewalt 60V is brushless too. And I doubt that current commercial brushless motors are much more efficient. They are more like marketing bs. The Makita DHP458 drill for example is brushed  and produces almost the same torque as the brushless DHP481 which is also heavier.

Including batteries it's exactly half a kilogram heavier then the corded model ( which is one of the strongest performers in it's class only equalled by hilti) . 

 

What you suspect doesn't matter because the cordless is exactly as strong as the corded.

 

You doubt that current brushless motors are more efficient ?  The 481 has 115nm hard torque compared to the 85 of the 458. That's 30 % more. It has higher rpm's also( 2100 vs 2000)and upkeeps it's rpm alot better under load. the 481 also drills more holes then the 458. And not just a few more but in a heavy duty situation ( big hole saws for example )  easily 30 % more.

 

So.... 30% more powerfull, easily 30% more holes in a heavy application, more top speed and it stays higher in it's rpms during load......

But you doubt brushless motors are more efficient.

 

Abit of research before you say anything instead of ' suspecting ' things would help.

 

 

[Makita_2233]

On 03/04/2018 at 4:36 AM, kornomaniac said:

 Thé 11 Joules spec doesn't, in any way, compare to the joules specced of other Makita ( or any other Bosch DeWalt metabo, etc.... Rotary of around 7 kg weight ).

It’s rated at 11.4 joules believe me. That’s the top serect Japanese spec. At woc the Makita killed the the Dewalt 40mm rotary when we ran them side by side. If it was only 8 joules i wouldn’t of expected it to beat the dewalt by nearly a whole hole. The corded Makita is rated at 11.4 joules in Australia. Just wait till the new Dewalt dch733 comes out in June-August it will blow them all away 

[kornomaniac]

No I do not believe you. I've tested the Makita and the DeWalt next to eachother in my own hands. The 6 to 8 joules is alot more realistic then the 6 to 11 joules.

 

I cannot say what the reason is but sometimes joules ratings adhere to the EPTA standard and sometimes they don't.