HiltiWpg Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 First impressions of the subcompact Reciprocating Saw and Rotary Hammer. I picked up these guys because I keep going back to the smaller platform. The subcompact drill and impact are perfect for my day-to-day service stuff. I decided to look at the subcompact Rotary Hammer because it seemed perfect for putting up cabinets and running pipe.This thing is tiny. Comically tiny. The design is unreal for such a small tool. The motor/Hammer completely isolated from the handle. The vibration is so minimal. It fits perfectly in the hand is almost perfectly balanced. If you want a little beast for light applications, don’t hesitate. I was about to leave when I spotted the subcompact recip saw. Holy.Sh!t. This little thing is beast. Heavy duty, ergonomic and built to take a beating.If feels like a quality tool. It’s solid. It’s balanced.It absolutely crushed the M12 Fuel. (To be fair, it is 18V and slightly bigger)It is fast and has a longer stroke length than other compact recips and the regular compact 18V Makita recip I already own. Suffice to say, I walked out with both tools and don’t regret it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolBane Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 Looks like they should be more than adequate for cutting steaks and drilling pilot holes for thermometers :^D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltiWpg Posted February 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 That little recip saw is a beast, not much steak would be left!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercorarius Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 What would you figure realistic repetitive use capacity is for that little rotohammer? Like 3/8 or just smaller tapcons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltiWpg Posted February 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 What would you figure realistic repetitive use capacity is for that little rotohammer? Like 3/8 or just smaller tapcons? 3/8”, 1/4” and 3/16” are all I will ever use it for. It is perfect for that type of one-handed stuff.I could see the occasional small core bit. It is surprisingly good. The Milwaukee M12 Fuel Rotary Hammer is rated higher for impact energy, but I can honestly say that the Makita is better/faster. The vibration (or lack thereof) is amazing.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercorarius Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Neat. Considering going the Makita route for tools this time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltiWpg Posted February 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 I really like how one battery spans three levels of size/performance. Subcompact, Regular and 18x2, smart.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercorarius Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Yeah that's one of the main appeals for me. DeWalt has only one size really. Any of the "compact" tools DeWalt has like their sawzall are junk. I am tempted by Bosch and Metabo but they don't have high torque wrenches which is a must for me. Makita seems to be killin it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 33 minutes ago, Stercorarius said: Yeah that's one of the main appeals for me. DeWalt has only one size really. Any of the "compact" tools DeWalt has like their sawzall are junk. I am tempted by Bosch and Metabo but they don't have high torque wrenches which is a must for me. Makita seems to be killin it. If only they'd bring out some quality battery nail guns 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradm Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 .... This good nailers please and thank you. Dont want to get into hitachi or dewalt just for nailers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Hitachi nailers look ace tho 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Framer joe Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Dewalt has 1 size ? Agree no 12v platform but the 20v line is Compact and the best out there in every single test...and no one comes close to the 60v line especially Makita’s 2 battery line 36v......the 20v line has many compact tools and larger tools within the line...the makita subcompact line doesn’t even match M12 in size or power.....But I do see one advantage of owning 1 battery platform... unfortunately if you need real power the 36v line doesn’t cut it and the subcompact line is out classed by Milwaukee....but for small light limited uses it’s a solid line....IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltiWpg Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 the makita subcompact line doesn’t even match M12 in size or power.....But I do see one advantage of owning 1 battery platform... unfortunately if you need real power the 36v line doesn’t cut it and the subcompact line is out classed by Milwaukee....but for small light limited uses it’s a solid line....IMO I get it, you love to shit on Makita. The Makita and M12 fuel are the same length, weight and virtually identical in spec. (Milwaukee specs faster though).Even the M12 impact and Makita Subcompact impact spec out the same.(1st gen of course) Unlike you, I have owned two of the M12 Fuel Rotary hammers, and can speak from experience and not make stuff up to fit my own preferences. The Makita, on paper , should not drill as fast or faster than the Milwaukee, but I hate to break it to you, it does. It also doesn’t run thermo-nuclear hot like the Milwaukee does after 5-10 minutes of use. The vibration level of the Makita is ridiculously lower and it even comes with side handle and dust extraction capabilities. To be fair to Milwaukee, that M12 is getting pretty old and the 2nd Gen will most likely be a beast. Skewed specs don’t make a tool valuable. Real world use does. One tool being 10% faster only matters on paper and in marketing materials.I can charge batteries in 20 mins. (90 mins for the 4.0 Milwaukee) I can run the tool harder and longer. I have one battery now, that works for me. https://youtu.be/7StT135EXf4 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltiWpg Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Man, I should do a shoot out with the M12 and the Makita...I don’t think anyone on here wants to see me in a video though!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolBane Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 15 hours ago, Framer joe said: Dewalt has 1 size ? Agree no 12v platform but the 20v line is Compact and the best out there in every single test...and no one comes close to the 60v line especially Makita’s 2 battery line 36v......the 20v line has many compact tools and larger tools within the line...the makita subcompact line doesn’t even match M12 in size or power.....But I do see one advantage of owning 1 battery platform... unfortunately if you need real power the 36v line doesn’t cut it and the subcompact line is out classed by Milwaukee....but for small light limited uses it’s a solid line....IMO Uhh...the hyperbole here is more than a little over-the-top. You assert Dewalt is “the best out there in every single test”? Such a statement isn’t even worth bothering to research, it’s WAY too tall to be taken seriously...but as I HAVE already watched and read a LOT of tests, it’s not hard to pick up that Dewalt not only doesn’t win them all but if anything probably lags, albeit not much, behind the other members of the “Big 3” prosumer companies Makita and Milwaukee on average. Also, “no one comes close to the 60V line”? Dewalt has some great products there, certainly, some are class leaders like their worm-drive circular saw which according to a reasonable number of reviews beats out the Makita 36V hypoid, but other 60V products have reviewed rather poorly for example the plunge saw. Also, you may not be aware of this but the 60V Max (which I hope you already know is actually just 18x3=> 54V) comes at the expense of current output? A “60V Max” battery that says 9Ah only makes that in “20V Max” mode. When operating in “60V” mode it only has 3Ah. There is no free ride. The total power output available is exactly the same as Milwaukee’s High Demand battery, and is actually less than a pair of Makita’s 5Ah batteries run in X2. That’s just going to be the physics of it. None of this makes Dewalt bad either. Most of my corded tools are Dewalt. They win their share of comparison tests and even when they don’t they tend to hang around the top of the field just like the other two brands, and all three companies turn in performances that are usually pretty close to each other. It’s just more objective to reign in the enthusiasm a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D W Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 I doubt the any M12 drill could beat the Subcompact Makita drill (my BS18 quick Metabo does though). But, I haven't used M12 so I probably have no idea. Look at the online videos though. They mostly run the M12 with the 4ah, which is 6 cells, and one video showed it struggling (relative to the 6 cell) with a 3 cell battery. That's equivalent to the subcompact with a 10 cell 4ah battery. On paper the max torque may be the same but the Makita can likely produce higher torque at higher rpm. The videos seem to show the Makita clearly handling similar drilling and driving work better. We need a side by side comparison. But anyone doing it please use a 10 cell 3ah-6ah on the Makita if using the 6 cell 4ah on the M12. @HiltiWpg just do some time comparisons with different sized bits and screws and report back here. Or just keep drilling bigger holes and driving bigger screws and report back who did the biggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltiWpg Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 I realize it’s only the 12v CXT, but it’s close enough! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggie Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 I think dewalt is currently on their game and have a very good offering of tools that might even be class leading in some areas but to act like they're light years ahead of everyone else simply isn't true. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 @Framer joeeWalt has a few great tools in the flexvolt lineup like the grinder or the saws but other flexvolt tools ( recip, plunge saw, the current SDS Max ) are nothing special and get beaten by other tools ( like Makita 36v ) easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makita_2233 Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 21/02/2018 at 6:27 AM, kornomaniac said: @Framer joeeWalt has a few great tools in the flexvolt lineup like the grinder or the saws but other flexvolt tools ( recip, plunge saw, the current SDS Max ) are nothing special and get beaten by other tools ( like Makita 36v ) easily. If only they did that test with the new Dewalt dch733 the outcome would of been different. I tried to take the dch733 over to the makita tent at woc but they wouldn’t allow it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Makita_2233 said: If only they did that test with the new Dewalt dch733 the outcome would of been different. I tried to take the dch733 over to the makita tent at woc but they wouldn’t allow it Yes, that's what the word ' current ' in my post meant of course 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Framer joe Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Love you guys 🤪.....hilarious....ok I made a big bold statement, you got me on that, slightly just a wee bit over the top...Dewalt is most of the time 1or 2 in competitions...if I knew how to post a vid I’d put a funny one up too.....you really think the Dewalt is that slow? It just beat every sds out there but Hilti......I don’t hate Makita, I like them , some of the most comfortable and compact tools available......and as I said before I USE Makita everyday,hence my ability to comment on their tools...not sure how many guys on the makita section even use Makita tools all day everyday like me... .....I criticize Dewalt, I don’t buy every Dewalt tool,..Makitas line of tools is Extensive...I just find Dewalt tools more powerful and long lasting , I comment on every tool brand section,it’s just my opinion based on use... Oh and Mr @ToolBane...I understand the math involved, but 60v at 3ah and 18v at 9ah is not the same output....I guarantee that you will get more work done in Real Life with the 60v flex tools at 3ah then any 18v tool with any battery size....🙃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolBane Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Framer joe said: I understand the math involved, but 60v at 3ah and 18v at 9ah is not the same output....I guarantee that you will get more work done in Real Life with the 60v flex tools at 3ah then any 18v tool with any battery size....🙃 I get the sense you’re falling for Dewalt’s questionable marketing labeling with the whole “20V/60V Max” thing. The actual operating voltage of Dewalt’s “60V Max” batteries is 54V. Dewalt’s “20V Max” batteries are 18V nominal voltage exactly the same way all 18V platforms are. They’re claiming 20 volts because that’s the voltage an 18V battery reads when fully charged and NOT doing any work. ALL 18V Lithium batteries will measure 20V when first charged and not doing any work, regardless of who the manufacturer it is. They buy the same Lithium ion cells everyone else buys from Samsung, Sony, etc then wire them in the same 5-cell series to reach the 18V operating voltage. Applied to Flexvolt, Dewalt’s “60V Max” batteries are really 3x18V=54V. They’re even labeled that way in other countries they’re sold in. The 3Ah “60V Max” battery has the same power available as Milwaukee’s 9Ah 18V High Demand, and less than 2x5Ah 18V Makita batteries in X2. There’s no way around it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D W Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, ToolBane said: Dewalt’s questionable marketing All over the internet people give Dewalt a hard time for their 20V Max but ignore 12V labeling. What about Milwaukee and their M12? It's just as bad but never gets a mention, anywhere. People only seem to complain about Dewalt. At least Dewalt and Makita state it's "Max". It should be M12 Max or M10.8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltiWpg Posted February 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 54 volts isn’t 60. 18 volts isn’t 20. 10.8 volts isn’t 12. 108 volts isn’t 120. 3.6 volts isn’t 4.Standing voltage rating is misleading. Regardless of who is doing it. Dewalt is the only company that does it across the board. They also don’t publish the tool ratings clearly or honestly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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