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Title edit: Makita announcing XGT 36V line


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Among many things I’m inferring from the video:

 

-21700 cells finally being utilized

 

-not too ridiculous in size...akin to Bosche’s Core batteries

 

edit:

-natively operates at 36V

 

-press release in Australia

https://www.makita.com.au/Next-Generation-Technology

Edited by ToolBane
Clarifying from initial rumors that proved incorrect
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I have just read a FAQ regarding SGT on makita.be, here's what comes out:   1) When asked about the competition offering 9ah and 12ah battery packs, they answer that 18v 12ah batteries would

Among many things I’m inferring from the video:   -21700 cells finally being utilized   -not too ridiculous in size...akin to Bosche’s Core batteries   edit: -native

It’s funny when a company makes a poor decision. There will always be the apologists. Nothing wrong with xgt. Just make more powerful batteries for lxt. Some tools can handle The slight increase in we

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Some people have noticed a gap between the two batteries pack on some recent x2 tools, this might explain why...

 

Could that also be the new OPE battery platform that Makita representatives have been talking about for years?

 

 

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Hmm...I dunno...while there are people around social media saying...or perhaps like myself strongly hoping for...backwards compatibility...I’m looking closer now and am not so sure.

 

Since I’m on a road trip and can’t access any photoshop software this is about as close to a direct visual comparison of these new batteries vs LXT I can get out of my iPhone and I am NOT at all sure these new ones will fit in LXT tools. Having left all my LXT tools home isn’t helping.

 

The other thing is, there’s nothing on these batteries that suggests a second voltage available akin to LXT. There’s noise both ways on social media but at least one person is going so far as to say he’s been attending Makita presentations in Japan and compatibility with LXT has been stated repeatedly. Can’t say that’s more than hearsay until an official press release though.

 

From a distance, losing backwards compatibility sounds like it could be more trouble than it’s worth, having to remake almost every LXT model into 36 volt versions of themselves. There also wouldn’t be any option for compact batteries. And most importantly ditching the largest 18V platform on the market to start over could be suicide. They already tried 36V in the past and the market did not embrace it.

40DAF530-CAAA-4386-BC79-FFF046A0C7D1.jpeg

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53 minutes ago, ToolBane said:

Hmm...I dunno...while there are people around social media saying...or perhaps like myself strongly hoping for...backwards compatibility...I’m looking closer now and am not so sure.

 

Since I’m on a road trip and can’t access any photoshop software this is about as close to a direct visual comparison of these new batteries vs LXT I can get out of my iPhone and I am NOT at all sure these new ones will fit in LXT tools. Having left all my LXT tools home isn’t helping.

 

The other thing is, there’s nothing on these batteries that suggests a second voltage available akin to LXT. There’s noise both ways on social media but at least one person is going so far as to say he’s been attending Makita presentations in Japan and compatibility with LXT has been stated repeatedly. Can’t say that’s more than hearsay until an official press release though.

 

From a distance, losing backwards compatibility sounds like it could be more trouble than it’s worth, having to remake almost every LXT model into 36 volt versions of themselves. There also wouldn’t be any option for compact batteries. And most importantly ditching the largest 18V platform on the market to start over could be suicide. They already tried 36V in the past and the market did not embrace it.

40DAF530-CAAA-4386-BC79-FFF046A0C7D1.jpeg

It’s not backwards compatible, it’s pretty clear it isn’t. It will be just another platform in makita’s line. Can’t see then ditching their 18v line. It’s possible the tools are multi voltage and 18v batteries will work on these new tools. There is an adapter being shown, but just speculation at the moment. The global press release is in a few days 

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A number of press releases today...

 

It appears that the new XGT system is completely separate. Makita have stated that they will develop both systems (LXT & XGT) going forward.

 

In my eyes this is a terrible strategy, further dividing the battery ecosystems and providing additional misunderstanding from the general public. Many will say that professional users will have a full understanding of how this works such as which tools suit which system however I beg to differ. In my experience this will cause a great amount of confusion for consumers of the makita brand across ALL their platforms.

 

Hopefully makita will bring out some larger Ah batteries (LXT) similar to what bosch have been doing.

 

 

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3 hours ago, dev said:

A number of press releases today...

It appears that the new XGT system is completely separate. Makita have stated that they will develop both systems (LXT & XGT) going forward.

In my eyes this is a terrible strategy, further dividing the battery ecosystems and providing additional misunderstanding from the general public. Many will say that professional users will have a full understanding of how this works such as which tools suit which system however I beg to differ. In my experience this will cause a great amount of confusion for consumers of the makita brand across ALL their platforms.

Hopefully makita will bring out some larger Ah batteries similar to what bosch have been doing.

 

Same here. I’m not sure what the thinking really is. Unless they’ve run these 36V tools and have simply found them to out-perform 18V by a very consistent and significant degree. Then as the two lines grow people may transition on their own accord. I’d speculate that to be unlikely, but we’ll see how that plays out.

 

I’m actually a little relieved at the cumulative message as it appears LXT will continue to be their bread and butter.

 

I’ll say what I think I’m most optimistic about: this strongly suggests to me Makita likely has 8Ah batteries on the way, with a compact form-factor not unlike what Bosch managed to do with their Core batteries. I say this because the XGT 2.5V looks like nothing more than their 5Ah LXT but with all ten 18650 cells in series instead of a pair of 5 cells in series. The 4Ah 40V Max XGT is only slightly longer at the front, and possibly slightly wider. Those are likely 21700 cells, 10 in series, that would make 8Ah if formatted to 18V for LXT. I’m hoping these come out sooner rather than later.

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IMO everyone will eventually be forced to go > 18v for high performance tools. You can really see how Milwaukee have fallen behind with their larger tools as opposed to DeWalt, metabo, Husqvarna etc. 18v just doesn't cut it for consistent heavy loads. Batteries were striding along well once and during the last year not much has changed at all so hopefully we get some big announcements later on in the year or early next year! 8ah just doesn't cut it.

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IMO everyone will eventually be forced to go > 18v for high performance tools. You can really see how Milwaukee have fallen behind with their larger tools as opposed to DeWalt, metabo, Husqvarna etc. 18v just doesn't cut it for consistent heavy loads. Batteries were striding along well once and during the last year not much has changed at all so hopefully we get some big announcements later on in the year or early next year! 8ah just doesn't cut it.


That’s not entirely true.
The popularity of 12v tools with tradespeople contradicts that.
There is a market for both to coexist.
Having 2 tiers of battery size makes more sense than increasing the size and weight of all tools for the sake of a few higher demand tools.

Eventually OSHA will regulate the size and weight of cordless power tools. I laugh every time I see guy doing trim work with a M18 Fuel Impact and a 9.0 battery.


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On 10/9/2019 at 4:58 PM, ToolBane said:

 

Same here. I’m not sure what the thinking really is. Unless they’ve run these 36V tools and have simply found them to out-perform 18V by a very consistent and significant degree. Then as the two lines grow people may transition on their own accord. I’d speculate that to be unlikely, but we’ll see how that plays out.

 

I’m actually a little relieved at the cumulative message as it appears LXT will continue to be their bread and butter.

 

I’ll say what I think I’m most optimistic about: this strongly suggests to me Makita likely has 8Ah batteries on the way, with a compact form-factor not unlike what Bosch managed to do with their Core batteries. I say this because the XGT 2.5V looks like nothing more than their 5Ah LXT but with all ten 18650 cells in series instead of a pair of 5 cells in series. The 4Ah 40V Max XGT is only slightly longer at the front, and possibly slightly wider. Those are likely 21700 cells, 10 in series, that would make 8Ah if formatted to 18V for LXT. I’m hoping these come out sooner rather than later.

There will be no new batteries for the lxt platform. 6ah 18650 will be the biggest for lxt 

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I'd imagine the idea is to keep weight down and compactness, and still achieve more power?

I have a lot of 18 volt and 36 volt Makita, and am happy with the performance and weight of both types, so I'm not over excited about the new platform.

I guess if I started buying the new 40 volt stuff and acquiring a few batteries along the way, I may feel different.

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the adapter is so the LXT batteries can charge in the XGT chargers. I'm kinda disappointed. Makita was the last of the big 3 to not go to a new battery platform and they finally gave in and halfway failed. Flexvolt is a new battery platform and so is High Output but they at least work with their regular line of 18v tools. 

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6 hours ago, Jronman said:

the adapter is so the LXT batteries can charge in the XGT chargers. I'm kinda disappointed. Makita was the last of the big 3 to not go to a new battery platform and they finally gave in and halfway failed. Flexvolt is a new battery platform and so is High Output but they at least work with their regular line of 18v tools. 

 

I don’t see myself buying into XGT. LXT with X2 has me covered. It’s a wonderfully complete tool system that has almost all my needs covered at this point.

 

The ONLY shortcoming with LXT is the lack of 8Ah batteries. Lots of 18V tools could use the extra run time. I’m aware of the noise suggesting they have no intention of going that way, and it wouldn’t shock me at all if they may be of this mind right now. But even if such is the case, it’s a bad decision only for as long as they stick to it. I just don’t see any good reason for it.

 

Actually scratch that...the ONE reason I can see that could conceivably justify it is if they have too many tools that are so tightly spec’d to the current limits of their 18650 packs that they could fail prematurely if run on the increased current flow that 21700 cells are capable of. But that would require a lot of design oversight that would seem uncharacteristic for Makita...so i’m doubting it.

 

I don’t think Makita’s toying with whether or not they can manhandle buyers into picking up entire new lines of tools to the same degree some others have. They’ve already been supporting a lot of different lines around the world while growing their LXT line. They’re still entirely invested in growing their CXT line...which is nowhere near as established as LXT. They have some 2 dozen new LXT tools slated for release over the next year. So I’m not worried.

 

One thing that does cross my mind with XGT is if Makita’s just placating the types of buyers who are simply inflexible to the notion of sticking more than one battery pack on a tool at one time with X2. Maybe, maybe not. I see/hear those sentiments getting thrown around and frankly it usually comes off as petty. Sticking two batteries on a tool instead of one is not some high-level academic challenge. It’s an elegant solution that provides a concrete performance outcome with very little extra investment on the part of the buyer.

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On 10/10/2019 at 11:32 PM, HiltiWpg said:

 


That’s not entirely true.
The popularity of 12v tools with tradespeople contradicts that.
There is a market for both to coexist.
Having 2 tiers of battery size makes more sense than increasing the size and weight of all tools for the sake of a few higher demand tools.

Eventually OSHA will regulate the size and weight of cordless power tools. I laugh every time I see guy doing trim work with a M18 Fuel Impact and a 9.0 battery.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

You are correct, that's why I said high performance tools. One definitely wouldn't want to be using an impact gun with a 36v or twin 18v battery setup on it 😂 but I'm sure someone would! 

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Yea if I told my guys they had to use the biggest heaviest batteries they would think I was being mean.  But let them pick from a bag of 10- 5.0ah and 3- 9.0ah and its shocking how many times a 9.0 ends up on an impact driver.

 

There was a time I would have fought the idea of a second battery platform pretty hard.  While I still like the idea of having all my m18 batteries work with any of my m18 tools, I can see that on high demand tools the m18 just isn't as powerful as dewalt 60v.  It's close on the new high output tools but 60v still has an edge.  So if makita thinks they can deliver a better tool by having a different battery platform I'd say go for it.  I still can't see why they're holding back their 18v line by not having a higher ah battery, unless like was commented before that their existing tools can't handle the extra power, which seems unlikely.

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I haven't seen a statement and I recently noticed a possible clue this may not be true. On the NZ and Australia makita product pages there is a new, empty, box on the banner of the LXT battery sizes that tools are compatible with (see pic).  I think it previously stopped at 6.0, but am not positive when the change occurred. Maybe the empty box was added for aesthetics, but seems unlikely?

SmartSelect_20191016-112910_Chrome.jpg

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44 minutes ago, Jjwillac said:

I haven't seen a statement and I recently noticed a possible clue this may not be true. On the NZ and Australia makita product pages there is a new, empty, box on the banner of the LXT battery sizes that tools are compatible with (see pic).  I think it previously stopped at 6.0, but am not positive when the change occurred. Maybe the empty box was added for aesthetics, but seems unlikely?

SmartSelect_20191016-112910_Chrome.jpg

 

I like this clue.

 

There have been other clues that have been going around like the spaces available for batteries being larger on newer X2 tools. If Makita isn’t presently planning on releasing bigger batteries, at the very least they aren’t precluding their new tools from being able to use them. 

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21 minutes ago, Framer joe said:

Why 40v if they have X2 18v (36v) ...I can only think they want to compete with flexvolt and larger voltage is needed with larger cells...

 

"40v" is the same as 36v, the only difference is in marketing hype (e.g., Dewalt) or to reduce confusion between two similar lines.  Likely Makita went with 40V for XGT to distinguish the new system from the X2 36v tools.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Jjwillac said:

 

"40v" is the same as 36v, the only difference is in marketing hype (e.g., Dewalt) or to reduce confusion between two similar lines.  Likely Makita went with 40V for XGT to distinguish the new system from the X2 36v tools.


The other thing is Makita DOES already have a 36V battery platform...separate and before X2...that the market simply never adopted. It even had an adaptor that allowed two LXT batteries to attach to the 36V tools in an essentially X2 style.
 

In my mind the existence of that platform obviated the need for all this; they could have just slowly introduced more tools and batteries to that line. But maybe there’s more battery computer management they wanted to get in-built to the platform as a whole that would have made that direction more trouble than it’s worth.

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I have just read a FAQ regarding SGT on makita.be, here's what comes out:

 

1) When asked about the competition offering 9ah and 12ah battery packs, they answer that 18v 12ah batteries would be technically possible, but heavier, bigger, slower to charge and more expensive than their equivalent XGT counterpart. They are talking about 0,7 and 1 kilogram for their 2.5ah and 4ah version respectively. The 2.5ah can be fully charged in 28 minutes. 

According to them, their 40v 2.5ah weighs just a bit more than their 18v 5ah battery and less than any 18v / 9ah option currently on the market. 

 

2) The XGT charger will require an adapter to charge LXT batteries.

 

3) They will keep releasing new LXT 36 volts tools, they are aware that a lot of customers are already equipped with 18 volt batteries and definitely can't ignore this fact. They still think that XGT 40v would nicely complement LXT for the most demanding tools.

 

original article (in french )

http://www.makita.be/actualite/avec-xgt-makita-lance-une-plate-forme-daccus-orientee-vers-lavenir-.html?allowCookies=1

 

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Their 2.5 40v basically IS the 18v 5.0; even down to the 18650 cells, why would we expect it to be much heavier?

 

The 21700 batteries will be the only ones worth a damn imo, the 2.5 will be a joke like the FlexVolt 6.0. 

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