Dewalt Battery Update

[Madtec]

So are the new XRP marked lithium-ion batteries different than the "regular" lithium-ion ones? Or is it just the look?

They are the same batteries, just a new marketing strategy. In fact this is the third cosmetic change in the last 12 months on this battery. I understand that dewalt is doing away with the Nano campaign. It will now just be cal XRP-Lithium Ion. I did this test with the lithium battery, but this drill (DCD950) will still come packaged with the XRP battery.

Actually, they are different, updated circuits, cells and they are shipped in "sleep mode"

[kanxrus]

Thanks for the extra info. What is different about the cells? I know that the DC9180 has had the same A123 cells since birth to date. At least the one's I've taken apart. I know the DC9181 is a Sony Cell. Is there something I missed?

DC9180

DC9181

[Madtec]

Thanks for the extra info. What is different about the cells? I know that the DC9180 has had the same A123 cells since birth to date. At least the one's I've taken apart. I know the DC9181 is a Sony Cell. Is there something I missed?

DC9180

DC9181

The premium packs (XRP) now offer Sony and Samsung cells, the updated circuits also includes fade; this is similar to NiCd where you can determine when the battery voltage is low, on the XRP Li-ion, the circuit cuts the voltage so you have a gradual shut down rather than a hard shut down.  The DC9181 launched with Sony cells

[kanxrus]

Sony and Samsung.... hmmmm.  :-\

How will the customer know what they are getting?

Is Samsung now offering some type of NANO or Iron Phosphate?

Will the XRP packs use the same Sony cells as the Compact packs?

Will the Sony/Samsung cells get the already advertised 2000 recharge cycle life? DC9181 is advertised at 800-1000?

Will the cost of the battery come down, as well as any combo kit that uses Lithium?

[Madtec]

Sony and Samsung.... hmmmm.  :-\

You act like this is a bad thing 

How will the customer know what they are getting?

The performance are the same

Is Samsung now offering some type of NANO or Iron Phosphate?

Yes

Will the XRP packs use the same Sony cells as the Compact packs?

They do

Will the Sony/Samsung cells get the already advertised 2000 recharge cycle life? DC9181 is advertised at 800-1000?

Same as current XRP

Will the cost of the battery come down, as well as any combo kit that uses Lithium?

It will, eventually

[kanxrus]

Information from Wiki under Lithium Iron Phosphate;

"...BOSCH and South Korea SAMSUNG are cooperating to develop lithium batteries and carry out mass production at a cost of about 4,000,000 U.S. dollars[5]. Although it is predicted that it will take about four to five years to move into the matured stage, BOSCH in any case will continue to invest in this effort in order to maintain its position as the top leader in the automobile technology...."

I am assuming this is the Samsung's version of the iron phosphate technology? Bosch as well as many others are currently using Samsung Cells.

Will the A123 be dropped all together? Or will they be still used in the 36v, 28v, and possibly the new 10.8v line we keep hearing buzzes about?

[Madtec]

Information from Wiki under Lithium Iron Phosphate;

"...BOSCH and South Korea SAMSUNG are cooperating to develop lithium batteries and carry out mass production at a cost of about 4,000,000 U.S. dollars[5]. Although it is predicted that it will take about four to five years to move into the matured stage, BOSCH in any case will continue to invest in this effort in order to maintain its position as the top leader in the automobile technology...."

I am assuming this is the Samsung's version of the iron phosphate technology? Bosch as well as many others are currently using Samsung Cells.

Will the A123 be dropped all together? Or will they be still used in the 36v, 28v, and possibly the new 10.8v line we keep hearing buzzes about?

As you may know, their are currently four different chemistries of Li-ion:  Cobalt oxide (most of the competitors use this, high capacity but poor charge cycles) Mannganese (i think that is how it is spelt) Phosphate (A123, Sony, and now Samsung) and lithium polymer (used in most cell phone batteries and laptops) and each competitor has their own brand of what goes into the cells.  DeWalt engineers (as do many other) have strict guidelines on how Li-ion Cells are processed and perform......

A123 will still be used.....

As for the new line........let's just say it will be a game changer  and it's going to be 12v; 10.8v in EUR.

[kanxrus]

Good to know, any chance you have an idea on a release date?

[Madtec]

Good to know, any chance you have an idea on a release date?

3rd of 4th qtr of this year.........This will be the first wave, so you know their will be a lot more to come

[protoolreviews]

FWIW, there is a new review up over at protoolreviews.com that looks at the new Dewalt DC9180C Lithium-Ion XRP battery. It's not a tear down, but it was used pretty hard in the field for a couple weeks and found to be very reliable. The review might be more suited for those coming off of Ni-Cad.

[Madtec]

Great review

[toptoolscenter]

"So are the new XRP marked lithium-ion batteries different than the "regular" lithium-ion ones? Or is it just the look?"

And now  this drill (DCD950) come packaged with the Li-ion  battery now.

and the the 36V dc9360 is li-ion with A123 (10pcs) battery cell

[Gatorb8881393434512]

"So are the new XRP marked lithium-ion batteries different than the "regular" lithium-ion ones? Or is it just the look?"

And now  this drill (DCD950) come packaged with the Li-ion  battery now.

and the the 36V dc9360 is li-ion with A123 (10pcs) battery cell

Just the look

950 comes with XRP NiCad Batteries, the 970 comes with the XRP Li-ion Batteries

[toptoolscenter]

:)DCD950  have li-ion battery now,and dcd970 is also use xrp and li-ion battery,thanks

[Gatorb8881393434512]

:)DCD950  have li-ion battery now,and dcd970 is also use xrp and li-ion battery,thanks

No: http://dewalt.com/tools/cordless-drills-hammerdrills-dcd950kx.aspx

[toptoolscenter]

the dcd950 is can use 18V XRP battery also used dc9180 li-ion battery,thanks

[framer]

The premium packs (XRP) now offer Sony and Samsung cells, the updated circuits also includes fade; this is similar to NiCd where you can determine when the battery voltage is low, on the XRP Li-ion, the circuit cuts the voltage so you have a gradual shut down rather than a hard shut down.  The DC9181 launched with Sony cells

how gradual of a shutdown?  why would they do this?  i want full power until the battery is dead. 

i hope dewalt doesnt do the same to the 36 volt batteries.

[goose77]

I think all Nicads lose power as they die and lithium ion gives you a consistent power band right till the end.

[Madtec]

The premium packs (XRP) now offer Sony and Samsung cells, the updated circuits also includes fade; this is similar to NiCd where you can determine when the battery voltage is low, on the XRP Li-ion, the circuit cuts the voltage so you have a gradual shut down rather than a hard shut down.  The DC9181 launched with Sony cells

how gradual of a shutdown?  why would they do this?  i want full power until the battery is dead. 

i hope dewalt doesnt do the same to the 36 volt batteries.

It is just an indication that the battery will need to be charged, so it is not a long drawn out slowdown like NiCd.  36v stays the way it is........

[mojoe]

I really like the lithium ion batteries preformance over ni-cad and ni-hi batteries. Please consider (2) batteries when offering your products. The consumer is looking for preformance, quality, usefulness, and then price in today's economy.

[kjones]

I really like the lithium ion batteries preformance over ni-cad and ni-hi batteries. Please consider (2) batteries when offering your products. The consumer is looking for preformance, quality, usefulness, and then price in today's economy.

I am a little confused about that statement.  What do you mean by (2) batteries?  Do you mean that they should package 2 batteries with tools?  If that is the case, the majority os toosl sold with batteries do in fact come with two, the saws and grinder are exceptions to that of course.

As to Li-on vs. NiCad, everyone has their opinion.  The reality is that there are definite benefits to both chemistries, and that the deciding factor should be the intended use for the tool.  If you are gonig to be working in extreme temperature conditions, or work your tools extremely hard, go with NiCad.  If you are working in more "normal" conditions, go Li-on.  Honestly they are both great, and I have lots of each so that I can plug the appropriate battery into any of my 18v tools to fit my use for any given day.

I was also skeptical about the artificial draw down on the Li-on batteries, as I do not want to lose power when I don't have to.  Having used this feature now hwoever, it is actually really nice.  It only affectsyour last screw or two, and just slows down the speed a little bit, so you know to chnage the pack.

[Madtec]

I really like the lithium ion batteries preformance over ni-cad and ni-hi batteries. Please consider (2) batteries when offering your products. The consumer is looking for preformance, quality, usefulness, and then price in today's economy.

I am a little confused about that statement.  What do you mean by (2) batteries?  Do you mean that they should package 2 batteries with tools?  If that is the case, the majority os toosl sold with batteries do in fact come with two, the saws and grinder are exceptions to that of course.

As to Li-on vs. NiCad, everyone has their opinion.  The reality is that there are definite benefits to both chemistries, and that the deciding factor should be the intended use for the tool.  If you are gonig to be working in extreme temperature conditions, or work your tools extremely hard, go with NiCad.  If you are working in more "normal" conditions, go Li-on.  Honestly they are both great, and I have lots of each so that I can plug the appropriate battery into any of my 18v tools to fit my use for any given day.

I was also skeptical about the artificial draw down on the Li-on batteries, as I do not want to lose power when I don't have to.  Having used this feature now hwoever, it is actually really nice.  It only affectsyour last screw or two, and just slows down the speed a little bit, so you know to chnage the pack.

I guess it made a believer out of you

[Bingobelle]

You are talking about DC9180 and DC9181.

But on my batteries it says DE9180. What is the diferent. I´ve the nano symbol and it was advertised to be able to recharge 2000 times.

Maybee it is written DE on batteries sold in europe and DC on batteries sold in the states. I bought my machine in Sweden.

And how much performance is expected to be left after 2000 cycles? !00 percent or maybee just 50 percent. Or is it going to downgrade after 2000 cycles?

[Madtec]

You are talking about DC9180 and DC9181.

DC9180, the compact battery (DC9181) do not have that particular software

But on my batteries it says DE9180. What is the diferent. I´ve the nano symbol and it was advertised to be able to recharge 2000 times.

The DC/DE9180 batteries with yellow side labels have the fade software

Maybee it is written DE on batteries sold in europe and DC on batteries sold in the states. I bought my machine in Sweden.

Yes, there is no difference, just the labels

And how much performance is expected to be left after 2000 cycles? !00 percent or maybee just 50 percent. Or is it going to downgrade after 2000 cycles?

The 2000 charge cycles is a cell manufacture spec if i am not mistaken, so use the battery for what it's intended purpose is.

[Bingobelle]

One more interesting thing that I do not think anyone have asked before about. Dewalt and makita just to name a few claims their li-ion battery will charge upp to 2000 cycles. But what is really a cycle? They say no memory effect so you can charge them when ever you like to. That´s fine but if you for example charge your battery 10 times and thay are only drained for example 1/3 of a full charge. Will this shorten the battery 10 charges of it cycle life or only 3 charges?

Personaly I only charge them when the battery is empty, do not se any point to put the battery on the charger after a couples of holes drilled. But I think you can see my point. If you have a habit to put the battery on the charger very often ( because no memory effect ) when not needed to, will you be able to have the whole RUNTIME from your batteries?