Milwaukee 2410-20 vs Dewalt DCD710 Drill/Driver Review

[kanxrus]

Click here if you missed the Hitachi review.

This review is the second of many upcoming reviews of different drivers in the 12v sub-compact line. In these reviews, I will be testing;

* Ergonomics

* Features

* Run-Time

* Torque

* Charge Time

* A look inside: 2410-20, 48-11-2401, DCD710, DCB210.

I will also list each tool's specs, as well as a subjective/objective overall grade for each category listed above after I have tested all models. Grade scale 1-5, 1 being the highest score, 5 being the lowest score.

My first series of review/test's will be between 12v lithium ion drill/drivers.

Second up, Dewalt DCD710 vs Milwaukee 2410-20

Dewalt has scrapped it's 12v NiCd battery stem style battery pack, and completely revamped the new 12v Max line with a new slide pack battery. Downside, your old 12v NiCd tools are NOT compatible with Dewalt's new 12v max line. The new 12v max line also has a dedicated charger. The charger will operate with the same flashing red light like Dewalt's standard chargers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ukyemM45Co

The new slide pack has allowed Dewalt to create a better ergonomic grip, as well as the ability to stand the tool up-right. A feature most of us are accustomed to on our larger voltage drivers. The Milwaukee drill/driver can stand upright, but not very well. If you have any heavy accessory in the chuck, the drill will tip over. Best if you just leave it laying on it's side if you don't want to run the risk of it falling over and damaging whatever surface it lands on.

Ergonomics;

I  never really had a complaint about the ergonomics on 12v tubular handle batteries (Makita, Bosch, Milwaukee, Ridgid, ect..) until I put the new Dewalt 12v Max in my hand. It truly is an amazing grip. I have owned the bosch 10.8v screwdriver since 2006 and I've really enjoyed the weight/power/balance. Now my wife no longer want's her Bosch driver.... Dewalt, can she get one in pink?

The Dewalt DCD710 is slightly longer at 7 9/16" vs the Milwaukee 2410-20 at 7 3/8" (not including chuck teeth.) Both Dewalt and Milwaukee were just shy of 8" tall at there highest point (with battery).

The Milwaukee 2410-20  weighs in at 2lb 4oz (2 lbs 10 oz with battery). 2 ounces heavier than the Dewalt DCD710 at 2 lbs,( 2lbs 8oz with battery and belt clip.) Or 3oz heavier without the belt clip.

FEATURES;

Both Drill/Drivers feature a 3/8" chuck. The Dewalt uses a Jacob's 4000 series ratcheting chuck 1/16"-3/8". The Milwaukee uses a nice ratcheting all metal chuck 1/16"- 3/8". Not sure who makes it? Out of all of our testing, The Milwaukee 2410-20 is the only 12v drill/driver offering a all metal sleeve lock ratcheting chuck. Both Drills feature a bright LED light located below the chuck.

The Dewalt DCD710 features a belt clip that can be mounted on either side, with a v notch cut out of the center  of the clip allowing you to hang the tool on a screw or nail. The Milwaukee 2410-20 does not feature a belt clip, nor the option to attach/purchase one later. If your a lanyard kinda guy/gal, the Dewalt offers a lanyard hook on the back of the tool. Milwaukee does not.

The Dewalt DCD710 features rubber bumpers on the top and bottom of the drill. If you choose to lay your drill on it's side, you will not mar up the surface you are laying it on. The Milwaukee 2410-20  has rubber bumpers on the top. These bumpers do not balance the drill flat, the front of the drill would rather lay flat on the metal chuck rather than the back bumper. Not sure if they were meant to be bumpers or not? Milwaukee does offer an extended battery pack 48-11-2402 that will allow this drill to stand up with better balance, and longer runtime. We did not do any testing with this battery.

Both drill/drivers feature a 2 speed transmission. The Milwaukee features a 21 position clutch, while the Dewalt features a 16 position chuck.

RUN-TIME;

In the run-time test's, we charged and drained each battery 3 times. Then left overnight on the charger. 24hrs later we re-drained the batteries and recharged them for the first test. For lack of time we only tested run-time in a drilling application. NOTE: We have 3 different 12v batteries from Milwaukee. Each with a progressive logo on them. Two of them had E-moli batteries, while the newest one had Samsung. We got slightly more holes, and better performance from the newest battery with the Samsung cells. Have a look inside,

THE SETUP;

We did two test's each, then filmed the 3rd on camera. The test's were done in 2nd gear, using a brand new Dewalt 1/2" spade bit. Model DW1574. Charged, and operated at 75 degrees. We used a 2x12 kiln dried Douglas fir premium lumber. It's worth mentioning, that during these test's both drills slowed down to a stop much like a NiCd battery would. A feature not currently common with Dewalt's lithium ion electronics.

After both batteries cooled down, the Dewalt DCB120 still had juice to complete  more holes, we did not take those holes into consideration on this test. The Milwaukee  battery did gain some power back as well. Like Dewalt, we did not take these holes into consideration. Nor did we do our final testing with the older batteries. One completed 28 holes, the oldest, only 5 holes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiupWxo73yI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMk5gXpYTKI

The Dewalt DCD710;

TEST 1  69

TEST 2, 67

TEST 3, 68 1/2

AVERAGE = 68 Holes drilled.

The Milwaukee 2410-20;

TEST 1, 45

TEST 2, 46

TEST 3, 44 1/2

AVERAGE= 45 Holes drilled.

The Milwaukee 2410-20 after about 30 holes really started to over heat. The electronics kicked in to prevent the drill from being overheated. We were able to struggle out another 15 holes. I had similar problems with the M-18 compact line.

TORQUE;

Much like test 1, Milwaukee and Dewalt had similar torque. Again I would not say one out preformed the other. Both easily drove 3/8"x3" lags, and 1 1/2" forstner bit's without lugging down. Both drills have the same RPM's, but the Dewalt was about 3 tenths of a second faster per hole.

CHARGE TIME;

Milwaukee advertises a 30 minute charge time. Dewalt advertises a 40 minute charge time. We decided to test the charge time. We completely drained the batteries, and I mean completely! They are as follows.

Milwaukee- 31 Minutes

Dewalt- 35 Minutes

I want to add in a few additional comments about the Milwaukee 2410-20. Because this drill looks more like a heavy duty line,  I was really excited to test it out! Milwaukee really put together a drill with heavy duty construction. Much more than is needed in such a light-duty line. All metal sleeve locking chuck, jam-pot construction, battery life gauge, metal clutch ring, and like everyone else, an all metal transmission, and not to mention.... an awful lot of battery monitoring electronics.

After all of that effort, they (TTI) throw in a motor I've never heard of? I'm not saying that's a bad thing. However its almost the exact same motor they put in their Ryobi 12v drill. Everyone else (Dewalt, Bosch, Makita, Hitachi...) seems to being using some form of a Japanese Mabuchi RS-550VC motor. If your into RC cars, these little motors are out-preforming little nitro cars! Milwaukee even put a Mabuchi RS-550VC in their screwdriver, and impact driver. I also think Milwaukee has the most temperamental electronics! If Milwaukee (TTI) made these changes, they would really have a drill/driver to contend with.

SPECS:

.

[syinzhang]

In fact, V motor is branch of Johnson motor. TTi have put V motor in many brands, Milwaukee,Ryobi,AEG

[kanxrus]

Thank you, I have been looking all over for some information on this motor. I will edit some of my remarks after I read up a bit on it.

[KDamericano]

  For what it's worth, Milwaukee is also going to be releasing new 12V batteries for that line that will replace the existing ones.  I'm not sure what the difference on the inside is, but Milwaukee claims like 40% better runtime, better performance in the cold, etc etc.  The new line is labeled "RED Lithium" on the outside.

[Krane]

I don't see why touting that the tool can stand up is any significance at all. The local Hitachi rep would say this about their 10.8v at my hardware store. Great feature to talk about no real world use in my opinion.

[kanxrus]

It makes it a lot more convenient, especially when you need to put the drill down in a hurry. It's not touting, it's just a simple fact worth mentioning. Thank's for waiting 19 month's to share that little tidbit.

[parrottpete]

When using a small diameter drill bit, a "big foot" battery drill has less of a chance of falling over and breaking the bit.  I've lost track of the number of 1/16 inch bits I've broken when my "small foot" Dewalt 9.6v has tipped over.

Maybe I'm not careful enough with my drill, but I'm now partial to drill/drivers that have wide foot batteries.

Pete

[golden valley const.]

It's a great attribute.  I bought into Milwaukees M12 line and the XC batteries make a nice standing base, not to mention double the capacity (a little more than the compact 18v in fact).  I haven't used dewalts 12v line yet.  I'm sold on Milwaukees 12V tools at the moment, but mostly because I own them and they work well and I don't need to lose time and money trading brands.  I already have 4 different systems and 3 brands which is ridiculous, but as tools die I'll narrow down.

[ztd]

The DeWalt 12Volt MAX Tools continue to receive positive reviews.

This month's Fine Home Building magazine issue May, 2011 has a review of the latest 12 V Lithium Drills..

The DeWalt DCF710 Drill finished on top with Editor's Choice.

[Hawkfan23]

You guys gonna test the drills with the new batteries? The batteries in the picture are way old- can you test with new and let me know what changes there are? I see that Home Depot is running a free batt event and they are the new Red batteries.

[kanxrus]

http://dewaltownersgroup.com/index.php/topic,439.0.html

[Steven]

My 'small' review.  In construction I have always used just DeWalt 18v tools & I if I needed more power I just went to corded tools.  Yesterday I had to replace the entire siding/trim on a chimney, some roof vents, & guttering.  So for safety reasons (I will explain later), I decided to buy the 12v Max Lithium Ion kit (DCK211S2) at Home Depot for $199.  It came with the drill/driver (DCD710), impact driver (DCF815), LED worklight (DCL510, bonus), 2 batteries (DCB120), 1 charger (DCB100), 1 bag, 1 phillips bit (in the impact driver chuck), & 2 belt clips.  This is a great tool, so far I give it a 5 out of 5.  I carry the tool on my belt then having a DCD970 in my hand, having both hands free for going up and down a ladder & walking on a steep roof while keeping your balance is safer.  As expected, it does not produce as much power of 18 volt tools, but it is not wimpy either.  The Milwaukee drill reminds me of the Craftsman Nextec, which I heard is made by Ryobi.  Being able to set a drill down on the battery standing up on the base is nice because there are several items left in the chuck I dont want to touch the table/ground like smashing a wire wheel, or polishing sponge with liquid on it, etc.  I use too use my DC759s 75% of the time & my DCD970s 25%, but now I will probably use this 12V drill 50% & the other drill models at 25% each.

[Steven]

In the United Kingdom, DeWalt actually has this line labeled as 10.8v

http://www.dewalt.co.uk/powertools/productdetails/catno/DCD710S2/

[dewaltUK]

thats because IT IS 10.8volts, in the u.s its a marketing thing, i guess they thought 10.8volts doesn't sound macho enough and won't sell.

they can get away with it by calling it 12volts MAX, that's because freshly off the charger the battery's peak at 12volts and then settle down for a nominal 10.8volts.

had they tried that in the U.K or the rest of Europe, it would have probably had a negative effect on sales because people would have probably accused Dewalt of trying to cheat or deceive them.

Dewalt u.s has done the exact same thing with their new line of XR products, calling them 20volts max, when in fact they are 18volt batteries. the exact same products in the U.K are simply classed as the new line of 18volt tools.

[kjones]

thats because IT IS 10.8volts, in the u.s its a marketing thing, i guess they thought 10.8volts doesn't sound macho enough and won't sell.

they can get away with it by calling it 12volts MAX, that's because freshly off the charger the battery's peak at 12volts and then settle down for a nominal 10.8volts.

had they tried that in the U.K or the rest of Europe, it would have probably had a negative effect on sales because people would have probably accused Dewalt of trying to cheat or deceive them.

Dewalt u.s has done the exact same thing with their new line of XR products, calling them 20volts max, when in fact they are 18volt batteries. the exact same products in the U.K are simply classed as the new line of 18volt tools.

In the US nearly all of the 10.8 tool lines are called 12v or 12v MAX or some other configuration of 12v.  At the early stages of the platform, most where called 10.8, but that has changed over the course of the last few years.  DeWALT was actually the third or fourth to call 10.8 a variation of the term 12v MAX (Milwaukee, Makita, and Hitachi did it before or right when DeWALT launched their 12v MAX).  And the 20v MAX is called that because in the US the current 18v line has so much market share and saturation, that calling the new line 20v as well would cause far too much confusion and panic.  Calling it 20v MAX creates a clean break from the current 18v line, minimizing confusion and panic in the market.

[dewaltUK]

with the 20volt max line i think Dewalt has decided to get in there first, before the competition starts doing it as well and started on a slippery slope to dishonesty. if they'r all doing this with battery voltage (one of the most important futures in a power tool) what else might they try it with in the future? max r.p.m, eg: r.p.m's without a chuck or cutting disc??  the list is endless.

[kjones]

with the 20volt max line i think Dewalt has decided to get in there first, before the competition starts doing it as well and started on a slippery slope to dishonesty. if they'r all doing this with battery voltage (one of the most important futures in a power tool) what else might they try it with in the future? max r.p.m, eg: r.p.m's without a chuck or cutting disc??  the list is endless.

I will make one final comment on this, then leave it alone.  This is not a "dishonest" move.  The voltage explanation is clearly laid out in every piece of literature, promotional material, and tool packaging/owners manual that is out there.  The 20v MAX is a name, and the actual power output is clearly explained on the tools.  As far as the "slippery slope" that you mention, those lines have already been crossed for years by all the tool manufactures.  Look at things like torque, power ratings, and cycle life that companies like Makita and Milwaukee advertise.  There is no standard for these tests, and their own testers are on the record saying that they build the tests to get specific results.  At the end of the day the responsibility is on the user to get the tool in their hand and test it out for themselves.  The proof is in the pudding. 

[dewaltUK]

what ever!

i like Dewalt and own a lot of their tools, but had they tried a blatantly deceiving move like that over here, i would think twice before i part my cash to them. as it stands, they haven't, so Dewalt is still top in my book.

i can only speculate as to why Dewalt chose that particular marketing campaign in the u.s, but it obviously has a lot to do with the american psyche in general.

[Gatorb8881393434512]

or it's because Dewalt has an 18v line that has been around since 1996 with the same style of battery. The 18v line here in the states consists of 4 different batteries (2 nicad, 2 lithium) where, correct me if I'm wrong, Europe only has lithium. Dewalt isn't abandoning it's 18v line, it's not like companies in the past who have just switched from one 18v system to another and stopped selling the old tools. Imagine this in the states, we already have 4 batteries in the 18v line and all of a sudden dewalt comes out with another slide pack 18v design that has 2 different batteries? There would be so much confusion, even if Dewalt named it XR instead of XRP, there are still the compact drills to deal with.

Dewalts Plan: Still maufacture their very successfull 18v line. Bring in new slide pack design with some newer features and lithium focused and market it 20v MAX as to avoid confusion with the current 18v line. 

[dewaltUK]

yeh yeh, your obviously a bit pissed at Dewalt as well for the 20v MAX lark, but you cant bring yourself to admit it coz you love Dewalt so much, thats why you came up with that ridicules and weak theory about there being confusion and panic in the 18v market. they could have called it any number of names other then 20v MAX, which is obviously meant to be misleading and is actually creating more confusion then not.

by the way, we over here have, 2 Ni-cad's, Ni-MH and Li-ion's, im not sure but there might even be two of each of the latter two, so im not sure how you came to the conclusion of there only being Li-ion?

any hoo, it was nice chattin, everyone here seems to be utterly devoted and loyal to Dewalt, as a complete newbee to the site i hope i haven't offended anyone too much.

[Gatorb8881393434512]

Well this is a Dewalt Forum... and as you can see from my sig, I am also an employee. So it's not a rediculous theory, it is the main reason. When I am training distributors or speaking with an end user I always mention to them that it's really 18v. It's not something that Dewalt is trying to hide. It's not creating more confusion, I have not heard anything negative from anyone I've told about naming the new line 20v MAX. They all seem to understand that having 2 different "18v" lines would get confusing.

As far as Europe, I'm not familiar with the market so I cannot speak to it. I do think EUR countries have laws against labeling the 18v as a 20v max or 10.8v as 12v Max. That may be the reason for the name being different.

Don't worry about offending, thanks for becoming a member of the site and sharing your input.

[anadevi]

I really like this new line, the name's irrelevant. They get the job done, Dewalt's a good brand and that's enough for me.

what ever!

i like Dewalt and own a lot of their tools, but had they tried a blatantly deceiving move like that over here, i would think twice before i part my cash to them. as it stands, they haven't, so Dewalt is still top in my book.

i can only speculate as to why Dewalt chose that particular marketing campaign in the u.s, but it obviously has a lot to do with the american psyche in general.

[anadevi]

Interesting side note on 12V/20V MAX. I noticed Hitachi now have a 12V Peek drill & impact combo kit in the UK.

[Jumpstat]

Thanks for the review.

Purchased my 1st Dewalt tool yesterday, the DCD710s2. Really like its performance so far...