tooljoe Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hey guys, I was going to post this in another forum (and maybe some other day to help others... plus if google brings 2wire users here... they might want to buy a dewalt tool ) but from what I have read in that forum, the people are none appreciative.... they act like they have everything figured out... anyways. I work as a maintenance guy and recently (the apartments just got internet) I have noticed that the 2wire brand modems/routers power supplies go bad quick (by quick I really mean withing at least 2 years). I already have the tale tale sings of the issues... they are not always the same, but over all, it will most likely be a power supply problem if you are having connection issues... trust me, even if the modems light are on, does not mean that the power supply is good... these two capacitors will most likely be bad if they are “fatâ€.... not flat at the top. I have only seen two type of power supply where I work... one has the capacitors at the bottom left side... and the other on the bottom... from what I have noticed is that mostly the capacitors close to the transformers go bad but I have seen where others too... for example in this pic.... (the capacitor is right above in the picture of caps above) this is a simple fix (at least for me)... the power supply from factory I believe it is 15-20 dollars. While the capacitors are merely cents... well plus shipping and handling... I got mine for free since I keep circuit boards of everything that I throw out (a thing I started doing ever since I realized that a 10 cents piece can make a 500 dollar component useless)... moving along, if you decide to take a look and see if the problem is not a wire connection but rather the power supply, the power supply it is easy to open... just use a vice as the pictures show (doing it to both sides)... you will hear a crackling noise when you squeeze and the shell should pop open like a peanut. (well you have to use your fingers to pry it open) all of these suffer from the same... and i am not including the ones i threw away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anadevi Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 ToolJoe, Not talking 2Wire specifically - Caps are notorious, and trust me you cannot always visually see a bulge or leaking cap. I don't have an ESR meter so I have to lift them to check. They probably using cheap no-brand caps. If you replace them, use caps with a higher voltage rating. Hey guys, I was going to post this in another forum (and maybe some other day to help others... plus if google brings 2wire users here... they might want to buy a dewalt tool ) but from what I have read in that forum, the people are none appreciative.... they act like they have everything figured out... anyways. I work as a maintenance guy and recently (the apartments just got internet) I have noticed that the 2wire brand modems/routers power supplies go bad quick (by quick I really mean withing at least 2 years). I already have the tale tale sings of the issues... they are not always the same, but over all, it will most likely be a power supply problem if you are having connection issues... trust me, even if the modems light are on, does not mean that the power supply is good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1393434539 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I just noticed something myself, based on the image, that charger isn't double insulated. Now with something small, that really wouldn't be a bigger deal, but given it's a charger, to me personally, that is cause for concern. While it's great that a grounded charger, that doesn't just mean, that it's acceptable not double insulate the product. I am very glad to see it's UL listed and not Interek though. UL ratings are much more stringent (with their tests) than Intertek, I've done researach on this and have spoken to several electricians about this. Anadevi is quite correct in the aspect of the caps, as more often than not you will see that oversized bulge or if your unlucky, a leaking cap. I only have a multimeter and at time an energy watage meter, so I have no way of testing either. But let's see if I can you help me, help you out. To begin with, what is the maximum voltage this charger produces? Also, what is the max amp this unit reaches at it's peak as well? I am inclined to believe it's less than 10, but some chargers I've seen have been more. In addition, what is the mAh or milliampere-hour of this charger as well? It's unlikely this unit is measured in mAs or milliampere second, but if you have that information, I'd be glad to see it as well. As for the wire (connecting the unit) what is the awg number on this device? Based on personal experience in general, the average awg number is between 22-24. There are some that are more and there are some that are less. Also out of pure curiosity, what types of screws are holding this unit together. Usually with chargers it's torx (regular) screws, however, my Nintendo XL charger uses Tamper Resistant T 7 screws, so I imagine it's possible to use Tamper resistant, Torx plus, Torx Security plus. How to tell between the four types. The regular torx has six sides, Tamper Resistant have a pin in the middle, Torx Plus, have precisely five sides and Torx Plus Security not only have five sides, but also have a pin the middle as well. In addition to using torx screws, I've also heard some companies using self tapping screws as well. If I can help, I sure don't mind giving some input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooljoe Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Not talking 2Wire specifically - Caps are notorious, and trust me you cannot always visually see a bulge or leaking cap. I don't have an ESR meter so I have to lift them to check. They probably using cheap no-brand caps. If you replace them, use caps with a higher voltage rating. true... plus heat sinks.. I am familiar with electronics... I have been taking apart things since I knew what a soldering iron was... but yes, I actually have a capacitor tester to test capacitors (i am not a parts changer )... that tester I use when repairing HVAC unit capacitors... but a “fat†capacitor will always = bad small or big. Yes, about the higher voltage rating and you can even use higher uF rating.. up to a point though, I forgot the formula but plus 5-10 uF should work. this is a video i posted earlier today in another forum using a modified heat gun i modified to remove SMD components... that tool makes it very easy to remove capacitors... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPedGuO8Ymk&feature=youtu.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooljoe Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Russ, I appreciate in you taking the time but i apologize i was not very clear (english is my second language and still learning)... my tittle is misleading. i am actually not seeking help but rather was trying to help others with similar problems. the power supplies i am referring to are not chargers. they power the 2wire modems/routers like this one... i am curious what you mean by this though that charger isn't double insulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1393434539 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Tooljoe, ah I see. I have had some experience with chargers (taking them apart, finer details to a extent.) However, I'll show you an image of double insulation to begin with. That square with within a box means the product is double insulated. Double insulation means in the event of a electrical occurrence, the product will be able to absorb more of the shock. This is really done for safety purposes. The item I took a picture of isn't mine though, it's my friend's camera charger and he was very nice to let me take a picture of it and yesterday, I took it apart to see the insides. Edit: Not sure why the picture isn't showing. Hmm interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anadevi Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Tooljoe, Electronics is strictly a hobby for me. I would like a ESR meter but it is difficult to justify when it only takes a minute to lift a component. I did not intend to imply that lifting a component meant replacing the component. I just don't have the tools to do in circuit testing. On the point of not being a part changer, actually finding and replacing a faulty component is just "changing parts". The real work is to determine why it failed. true... plus heat sinks.. I am familiar with electronics... I have been taking apart things since I knew what a soldering iron was... but yes, I actually have a capacitor tester to test capacitors (i am not a parts changer )... that tester I use when repairing HVAC unit capacitors... but a “fat†capacitor will always = bad small or big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooljoe Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Electronics is strictly a hobby for me. I would like a ESR meter but it is difficult to justify when it only takes a minute to lift a component. yeah, mine was provided by the company but I get to take it home and use it on my hobbies myself. It looks something like this one http://www.electronix.com/esr-low-ohms-meter-kit-with-stand-p-18234.html I did not intend to imply that lifting a component meant replacing the component. I just don't have the tools to do in circuit testing. On the point of not being a part changer, actually finding and replacing a faulty component is just "changing parts". The real work is to determine why it failed. yes, I understand. I did not direct the comment towards you. I meant to say that in my trade I actually test the components if they are in good working order... instead of replacing parts down the line. The guys where I work don't know how the components work but rather change parts with out actually testing them first if they work or not. The shop shelves are full of unboxed items (and a mixture of good and bad ones) that they open to change suspected bad components. I meant to imply that I don't work that way. I actually test the components first and if it's bad I replace it. I don't go changing parts like the capacitor, thermostats, relays, etc... till I find the bad one. That's what I meant about “parts changerâ€. Take the power supply for example... you can easily test with a volt meter if it's giving out its rated output volts. And if it is not, then it is bad. And I try tell the manager that I can repair them if they buy the capacitors only, but they like to spend the money and buy $15-20 dollar new ones. Just today I found another that went bad and the manager is going to place an order for 15-20 pieces tomorrow. But the guys that work with me don't even do such simple thing. They go and replace line filters, cables, modems, etc. (parts changers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooljoe Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Double insulation means in the event of a electrical occurrence, the product will be able to absorb more of the shock. This is really done for safety purposes. Edit: Not sure why the picture isn't showing. Hmm interesting. I see. I use tinypic.com to embed pictures here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anadevi Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, I'm sorry, I understand the point now. yes, I understand. I did not direct the comment towards you. I meant to say that in my trade I actually test the components if they are in good working order... instead of replacing parts down the line. The guys where I work don't know how the components work but rather change parts with out actually testing them first if they work or not. The shop shelves are full of unboxed items (and a mixture of good and bad ones) that they open to change suspected bad components. I meant to imply that I don't work that way. I actually test the components first and if it's bad I replace it. I don't go changing parts like the capacitor, thermostats, relays, etc... till I find the bad one. That's what I meant about “parts changerâ€. Take the power supply for example... you can easily test with a volt meter if it's giving out its rated output volts. And if it is not, then it is bad. And I try tell the manager that I can repair them if they buy the capacitors only, but they like to spend the money and buy $15-20 dollar new ones. Just today I found another that went bad and the manager is going to place an order for 15-20 pieces tomorrow. But the guys that work with me don't even do such simple thing. They go and replace line filters, cables, modems, etc. (parts changers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1393434539 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Double insulation means in the event of a electrical occurrence, the product will be able to absorb more of the shock. This is really done for safety purposes. Edit: Not sure why the picture isn't showing. Hmm interesting. I see. I use tinypic.com to embed pictures here. Doing that right now. Here is the html link. <a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=21482dd" target="_blank"><img src="http://i42.tinypic.com/21482dd.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a> And just to make sure this picture is for sure here for good. http://tinypic.com/r/21482dd/5 Anadevi: So I've been doing some research on ESR meters for you. You can find some on Amazon (obviously) and elsewhere, but I'll tell you something you probably already know. From my own personal experience with meters in general, it's probably best to really do some research beforehand and decide if you truly want it or not. I've already gone through two meters myself, although they aren't ESR of course. Luckily in my case I was able to receive my money back for said two meters, but truth be told, if you can just get one good meter and hope it lasts longer than you expect it too, then your ready to go. I don't think Fluke (the company) sells ESR meters, but Anadevi here is the number to Fluke Technical Support line. 800-443-5853. Depending what region your in, you may have to add a 1 before the 800. I then thought Klein Tools might carry one (at least to see the difference is between brands, unless you are 100% familiar them.) Not sure if this will help a great deal, but here is the Klein Tools Technical Support number. 877-775-5346. Grainger does sell an ESR meter, but I'll tell you right now Anadevi, it's not at all cheap, but looks like it would be able to do some work. Here is the link to the product. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=ESR+meter&op=search&Ntt=ESR+meter&N=0&sst=subset The second (give or take) best option is a site called Msc industrial Supply company. Here is a link to their home page. http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRHM?cm_re=HomePage-_-SiteLogo-_-HomePage I'll be perfectly honest here, based on the catalog, they don't seem to carry any ESR meters, but I've dealt with them twice and they are pretty easy to deal with. Plus they have 24 hour Live chat help (it seems) so if for some reason you need help, but aren't near a phone, there is that option. Plus they seem to have access to companies phone numbers that as you guessed, are sometimes direct lines. Now if they will tell you the numbers, that is a whole other story. However, I do have one more resource for you Anadevi. There is a video website called Youtube and that site occasionally contains educational video's. There is this extremely helpful series of videos created by a user named EVVblog (he has his own blog, fourm and of course, a youtube account.) and has done several video's on meters, typically multimeter s. Here is a link to this forum. http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php As well as to his youtube video's. https://www.youtube.com/user/EEVblog Those video's sure have helped me a tremendous deal. Taught me some of the basics and some of the less basic information as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsey Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Russ, I appreciate in you taking the time but i apologize i was not very clear (english is my second language and still learning)... my tittle is misleading. i am actually not seeking help but rather was trying to help others with similar problems. the power supplies i am referring to are not chargers. they power the 2wire modems/routers like this one... i am curious what you mean by this though that charger isn't double insulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsey Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 It sounds that you are so good when it comes to router connection what is the best place for router. I just put my router on the computer table and I have a wireless desktop on the other bedroom but the signal is not so strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooljoe Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 thanks for the info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooljoe Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 It sounds that you are so good when it comes to router connection what is the best place for router. I just put my router on the computer table and I have a wireless desktop on the other bedroom but the signal is not so strong. it is best to place it by itself and not close to electronics because the electronics may cause interference and vise versa . Also, if you have a similar modem/router like in the picture, it is best to set it standing up. Moreover, try to move the router left or right and check if your desk top gets a better signal, like back in the old schools days when one would go out side to move the TV antenna for better signal... then once found, use double sticky tape and apply it on the base of the router. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't have a clue what you guy's are talking about, but I'm loving the great "off topic" conversation you guy's have going on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsey Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 ToolJoe, Not talking 2Wire specifically - Caps are notorious, and trust me you cannot always visually see a bulge or leaking cap. I don't have an ESR meter so I have to lift them to check. They probably using cheap no-brand caps. If you replace them, use caps with a higher voltage rating. Hey guys, I was going to post this in another forum (and maybe some other day to help others... plus if google brings 2wire users here... they might want to buy a dewalt tool ) but from what I have read in that forum, the people are none appreciative.... they act like they have everything figured out... anyways. I work as a maintenance guy and recently (the apartments just got internet) I have noticed that the 2wire brand modems/routers power supplies go bad quick (by quick I really mean withing at least 2 years). I already have the tale tale sings of the issues... they are not always the same, but over all, it will most likely be a power supply problem if you are having connection issues... trust me, even if the modems light are on, does not mean that the power supply is good... Guys it is very educational, I learned something from your post. keep posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKD Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hi this maybe of interest it works as advertised and reasonably priced, plus you get to put it together your self. http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=K2574 cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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