The Saw Stop Guy is Suing Bosch about the Detect Table Saw

[DR99]

I don't know if he any legal case though, and he is just a general litigious ahole so I hope he loses.

 

 

 

Here we go! SawStop is going after Bosch for their new tablesaw. This is going to be real interesting. Once again the lawyer does what he does best and sues.....UGHHHHHH.

Tualatin, OR — July 16, 2015 — SawStop, LLC, the world leader in table saw safety, today announced that it has filed complaints at the U.S. International Trade Commission and the U.S. District Court in Oregon against Robert Bosch GmbH of Germany and its subsidiary Robert Bosch Tool Corporation to stop infringement of SawStop’s patented inventions.

After years of denying the need for active injury mitigation technology on table saws, Bosch has announced that it intends to release a table saw that incorporates numerous inventions developed and patented by SawStop. As part of the lawsuit, SawStop is asking the ITC to exclude Bosch’s infringing table saws from entry into the United States, and to order Bosch to stop advertising and selling infringing products in the United States.

“SawStop has invested millions of dollars developing inventions to protect woodworkers from serious injury,” said Dr. Stephen Gass, SawStop’s President, “and those inventions have been awarded patents. Patents are the cornerstone of American innovation, protecting the work of inventors from unauthorized use. A foreign corporation like Bosch, who takes advantage of the American patent system by filing multiple patent applications every day, should respect the patents awarded to others instead of relying on its size and financial resources to disregard those patents.”

“We are proud of the difference our table saws have made in the lives of woodworkers,” said Dr. Gass. “SawStop saws have already saved thousands of woodworkers from serious injury. And although Bosch is one of the world’s largest companies with billions of dollars in annual revenue, we will vigorously defend our patent rights.”

 

[StrippedScrew]

I have to admit I prefers Bosch's implementation of stopping the blade than SawStops. Also this patent war is getting out of hand from all across the spectrum from apple to Samsung to Bosch. Safety in power tools should be universal in all manufactures.

[Nalu Rash]

As a business, I believe it is SawStops duty to go after Patent Infringement. Having said this, I still believe the guy is an asshole.

Steve Gass claims that all he wants to do is make a safer environment for woodworkers. If this was really true, why doesn't he follow in Elon Musk's footsteps and share all the information so others can benefit? It sounds to me like Steve Gass is trying to monopolize the Table Saw market. 

 

I believe Bosch has a better implementation of the safety feature:

1. Far cheaper to replace the brake

2. The brake can be used twice

3. The blade does not get damaged by the brake

 

If you find this subject matter interesting, listen to this episode of Shop Talk Live:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/115195/stl-72-another-tablesaw-lawsuit

[Justin Hernandez]

I don't know much about how patents work but do you have to get the patent in every country or does one patent protect you from all over the world? 

[overanalyze]

Just what we need...a waste of our judicial system...they are different types of systems...let it go Gass!!! Competition is good for everyone, it helps prices become competitive, it spurs improved designs, it keeps everything in check. 

[khariV]

I don't know what the patents cover or how they are worded, but the base technology - detecting flesh contact with the blade using an electrical signal and then removing the blade below the cutting surface - is identical.  I also think that Bosch has a better implementation as it doesn't ruin the blade.  That having been said, if the patent is valid, then Bosch should have paid a licensing fee.  I really hate big corporations that steal ideas and hope just to bury the competition in a court case that goes on forever until the market makes the decision.  Microsoft did this over and over again.  This is Samsung's business strategy.  The US Patent system exists for this exact reason - to protect someone having their ideas, designs and intellectual property stolen.  Working in software, this topic is near and dear to my heart.  Competition is good, but stealing ideas and passing them off as your own will kill small businesses and just put more money into big corporation's pockets.  (If you don't believe me, google Sears vs. Loggerhead.)

 

Lobbying to have the government require SawStop tech on all table saws - yeah, that was kind of a dick move.  The last thing we need is more government mandating that we spend money, especially when that money goes right into the pocket of the person / company pushing the legislation.

 

However, regardless of how you feel about the Sawstop guy, the bottom line is he has a series of patents and if Bosch has infringed upon those patents, they should pay.

[rfwjr]

It will be interesting to see what the courts think of the two technologies and how similar they are.  I think the SawStop is a nice saw but I do not care for how the guys does business. I like that you can use the Bosch system twice with no damage to the blade.  That is a significant advantage when you are using an expensive blade like a Forrest blade. 

[ChrisK]

The cartridges on the Reaxx are replaceable after two uses. This is a huge cost saving for an activation. I am hoping to get the saw stop cabinet saw but if Bosch makes a cabinet saw in there.

[rfwjr]

The cartridges on the Reaxx are replaceable after two uses. This is a huge cost saving for an activation. I am hoping to get the saw stop cabinet saw but if Bosch makes a cabinet saw in there.

I would like to see a Bosch cabinet saw also with Reaxx.  That would give an alternative to the SawStop.

[William S]

I don't know much about how patents work but do you have to get the patent in every country or does one patent protect you from all over the world? 

nah the patent is only good for the US, so Bosch can still sell it everywhere else.

[ChrisK]

I seriously doubt the ambulance chaser will win. Totally different mechanism. That'd be like saying......

"Hey.....I made a cordless drill that goes forward and reverse.....hey....those jerks have a cordless drill that goes forward and reverse too! I'm suing!" It ticks me off on account I want a saw stop saw. I hope Bosch comes up with a stationary one just so I can buy it and say "suck off numb nuts"

[Nalu Rash]

I seriously doubt the ambulance chaser will win. Totally different mechanism. That'd be like saying......

"Hey.....I made a cordless drill that goes forward and reverse.....hey....those jerks have a cordless drill that goes forward and reverse too! I'm suing!" It ticks me off on account I want a saw stop saw. I hope Bosch comes up with a stationary one just so I can buy it and say "suck off numb nuts"

 

Yeah, Steve Gass can kiss my _ _ _. He is defending that patent so hard that it's hard for anyone else to make a similar product. I give Bosch a whole bunch of kudos for innovating with the Reaxx saw. Hopefully the other big table saw manufacturers will follow suit. I would love to see Powermatic, Delta, Jet, Grizzley or even Rigid come out with a similar safety feature to compete with Saw Stop.

 

Gotta say though, the Saw Stop is a great Table Saw. You definitely need to take some pictures of that bad boy when you get it. If I were gonna pay that much money though, I'd get a Powermatic instead, since I cut metal and wood on my table saw. 

[Justin Hernandez]

After watching some videos Bosch wins hands down its a much better system

[kruton]

I've not been able to try either saw but I'll take anything to make our equipment safer. I'm curious to see how this all shakes out.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[khariV]

What I want to know is why none of the big guys have licensed the Whirlwind tech. 

whirlwindtool.com

 

Now THIS is a new technology that's completely different from the "touch the blade, make it stop" patents that Sawstop might hold.  I'd love to get a hold of one of these whirlwind boxes to add to just about any table saw.  If this thing really works, it kicks both SawStop and Bosch's ass - no consumables, works on any saw, services multiple machines with a single box.

[optimistspencer]

Oh no- a safer table saw design from a widespread company? Ban it, or else more people will not get hurt!

Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk

[khariV]

Thats interesting the whirlwind device. Looks like they haven't done the hot dog test, hate to test my hot dog so they can count me out!

Haha - so there actually is a hot dog test video on the site. It's just not very well organized so it's kinda hard to find. 

 

The setup of the system seems to make it such that the hot dog test is irrelevant.  The clear plastic shroud has a horizontal component that completely encases the spinning blade and lays essentially flat on top of the board being cut such that you really wouldn't even be able to get your hot dog near the blade without first touching the shroud.  Of course, touching the shroud triggers the brake as well.

 

What I'd like to know is why haven't any of the big saw makers made a dust/protection shroud that encases the blade?  You would think that would eliminate not only the possibility of getting pulled into the blade but also would massively cut down on dust too.

[Justin Hernandez]

Haha - so there actually is a hot dog test video on the site. It's just not very well organized so it's kinda hard to find. 

 

The setup of the system seems to make it such that the hot dog test is irrelevant.  The clear plastic shroud has a horizontal component that completely encases the spinning blade and lays essentially flat on top of the board being cut such that you really wouldn't even be able to get your hot dog near the blade without first touching the shroud.  Of course, touching the shroud triggers the brake as well.

 

What I'd like to know is why haven't any of the big saw makers made a dust/protection shroud that encases the blade?  You would think that would eliminate not only the possibility of getting pulled into the blade but also would massively cut down on dust too.

Thats a good point but table saws are so loud if you use one in a small room everyone will be deaf, so most use them outside. The dust would always be there even if they had something to collect it just look at Miter saws there always messy even with a vacuum.