Conductor562 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 The other day I was sitting around thinking and came up with what I thought was a great idea, until I found out it was already patented. I envisioned an 18V battery pack with a cord. The internal components would consist of an inverter rather than battery cells. The idea is that with this conversion pack any compatable cordless tool gains the ability to run off 110 AC in addition to the battery. The advantages are obvious. The user gains the ability to eliminate downtime due to recharging periods and never again have to choose between electric or cordless or fork out the cash for both. For the price of a conversion pack you'd have an electric and cordless everything. I can see where the manufacturers would have some reservations about it, but from a consumer perspective how awesome would this be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutnamEco Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I remember Dewalt had converter battery pack type thing in their 24v line back about 6-7 years ago. As I recall it turned mediocre cordless tools into pretty poor corded tools. It might be a little different with todays larger voltage tools coming close to the performance of a corded tool, but even so, if you really need a corded tool, why not go all the way and get a no compromises corded tool? This is one of the reason I keep harping on larger voltage tools and multi bay battery chargers. If you have enough batteries and the capacity to charge them you should be easily able to run a cordless tool continuously. Sawzalls, angle grinders and circular saws can all easily deplete a charge before a second battery can complete a charge. 36v tools can almost keep up with me, although I would prefer to have more time to cool batteries before charging them again. My V28 tools would need half a dozen or more battery packs and both my three bay charger and a single charger or two to keep one of my saws going, and all the batteries better have a full charge at the start of the day. At 18v I can usually run my drills and impacts for longer than it takes to charge a battery so this is not that big an issue with these tools, as a couple extra batteries can usually solve any run time problems. 12v, I don't think so....TL:DRUntil batteries can run cordless tools longer than it takes to charge them, they will never be a viable alternative for corded tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductor562 Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 There may be some kind of issue preventing this from happening. I'm certainly no electrical expert, but I can't imagine 110V AC not being able to sufficiently power an 18V DC tool. There is a patent out there and I found a couple videos of people who had created similar devices. Whether of not it totally viable I cannot say, but it is a nice idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayneburgess Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Battery technology is moving so fast that it won't belong before cordless tools will make many corded tools redundant.I use my stuff all day and these days my 41/2 inch grinder is cordless and so is my jigsaw and no longer even own the corded versions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutnamEco Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 There may be some kind of issue preventing this from happening. I'm certainly no electrical expert, but I can't imagine 110V AC not being able to sufficiently power an 18V DC tool. There is a patent out there and I found a couple videos of people who had created similar devices. Whether of not it totally viable I cannot say, but it is a nice idea.The problem is not that there isn't enough current to supply a cordless tool, the problem is that cordless tools even working with line voltage does not equal the performance of corded tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductor562 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 The idea is that the people who do find their cordless tools sufficient would have the ability to run forever. It would eliminate virtually all downtime. It certainly wouldn't eliminate electric tools, but it would expand the viability of cordless ones. Take my Sawzalls for example. My M18 performs awesome! I have no complaints what so ever about it in regards to it's cutting performance. However, due to limitations in run time it's mostly relegated to small jobs. The only reason I have a corded model is because of this. The same is true of circular saws and jig saws as well. Instead of having 2 of each I could have purchased an adapter and rather than having duplicates of 3 tools I could have parlayed my savings into 3 completely different tools. This would be especially handy now cordless tools have expanded so much. It wouldn't be for everyone, but it would be great for people like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutnamEco Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 The idea is that the people who do find their cordless tools sufficient would have the ability to run forever.I think part of the problem is that the press would be comparing them to regular corded tools and the adapted cordless tools would not have a good showing, bad press = not a lot of tools sold.Like you mentioned as well, someone is probably sitting on the patents and they may be making it difficult to license them.It has been my experience that even 28v/36v reciprocating and circular saws fall short of the performance of their corded equivalents. especially when they are run hard, which may be another problem, cordless tools are not rated for continuous duty, something they may be exposed to, should some one put a plug on them.If your really into it, I'm fairly certain a power supply that could supply the required current could be sourced easily and it would not be terribly hard to gut a battery to make into an adapter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductor562 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 When you think about, the workload on the tool really doesn't increase that much. Few users actually find themselves waiting and waiting because if they're that dedicated to their cordless tools they have enough packs to keep moving. For these people it eliminates the need for having half a dozen batteries and 3 chargers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutnamEco Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 When you think about, the workload on the tool really doesn't increase that much. Few users actually find themselves waiting and waiting because if they're that dedicated to their cordless tools they have enough packs to keep moving. For these people it eliminates the need for having half a dozen batteries and 3 chargers.Figuring a run time of 15-20 minutes (even less for a circular saw) someone would need approximately 25 batteries to keep a sawzall working steadily all day. At $125 per M28 that would work out to $3125 for batteries. Without multiple chargers, they will not be able to charge all the batteries before the next day. After about 4 battery packs of continuous use, a cordless sawzall is getting uncomfortably hot to hold, where as corded sawzall working an hour or so, is just getting warmed up. Corded tools just make so much more sense for heavy use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductor562 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 25 batteries? If You're getting 20 minutes run time on a particular tool you're using 3 batteries per hour. The batteries have a 1 hour charge time so it's entirely possible to keep moving with 6 batteries. In reality it could be less because how many people using a Sawzall actually have the trigger pulled back a solid 8 hours in a given day? Even what we consider constant use is still somewhat intermittent. The Incredible Hulk couldn't burn up 25 Sawzall batteries in a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayneburgess Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 With the new breed of 4ah batteries and who knows what next battery tools are now a real every day tool.mine get hammered all day every day and it does not take as many battery packs as you think to do a very long day.I can only see this getting better and better, but corded tools come into their own when you need very high power for a very long period of constant use.and currently no manufacturer has tried to make these tools so it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductor562 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I agree that the electric tools make more sense for all day use. DC power generates more head than AC, no question about it. Think about this, I've got 2 M18 batteries that came with my kit and with the additional tools that I purchased I'm using 2 batteries to run 6 tools. I'm a DIY'er / Hobbiest so this set up typically fits my needs. However, on remodeling projects I sometimes run into a pinch. If I've got someone helping me the batteries sometimes can't keep up, especially if one of us is using the Sawzall, circular saw, or vacuum. I've got electric versions of these tools to compensate for this but if I had an adapter like the one I envisioned, I wouldn't have to. It's added versatility, simple as that. It wouldn't replace electric tools in heavy industrial applications, but for DIY'ers, hobbiest, installers, and many other residential type applications it would be spectacular. It gives you added capability when you find yourself in situations above and beyond what you're equipped for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayneburgess Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 It would be a great addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductor562 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 As we found out awhile back, the overload protection is located in the tool rather than the battery so I think it's entirely plausible that it would still work. The tool wouldn't know the difference between the battery and the adapter so I don't know why it wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayneburgess Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 There is an adaptor for the power 8 workshop so the tech already exists so it would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutnamEco Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 25 batteries? If You're getting 20 minutes run time on a particular tool you're using 3 batteries per hour. The batteries have a 1 hour charge time so it's entirely possible to keep moving with 6 batteries. In reality it could be less because how many people using a Sawzall actually have the trigger pulled back a solid 8 hours in a given day? Even what we consider constant use is still somewhat intermittent. The Incredible Hulk couldn't burn up 25 Sawzall batteries in a day.3 batteries per hour times 8 hours equals And your amusing all these batteries are in top shape to boot, at about three years old most Lith-Ion batteries are at 60%-70% capacity of a new one. What happens when you have a few tough cuts thrown in as well. Circular saws and angle grinders are even tougher on batteries.Hulk must be a wimp if he can't burn through a couple dozen batteries in a day. Only recip saw that might give you a problem doing this is the Hilti 36v., and you don't want to know how much a set of those batteries cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayneburgess Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I am at work right now on a break and the. three batteries I have kept my grinder cutting 10mm rod for clips and unistrut all day.So I am happy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductor562 Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 If you need anywhere close to 25 batteries for a days work you either own the company or you need to give some serious thought to investing in a union book. When I was on my last demo job I had a Sawzall and 2 batteries and I couldn't wait for the damn things to die. If you're burning through 6 batteries in any tool faster than you can get 1 charged you need therapy, not electric power tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutnamEco Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I am at work right now on a break and the. three batteries I have kept my grinder cutting 10mm rod for clips and unistrut all day.So I am happy.Wouldn't a porta band be better for cutting stuff like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayneburgess Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Rare as hens teeth over here Pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutnamEco Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 If you need anywhere close to 25 batteries for a days work you either own the company or you need to give some serious thought to investing in a union book. When I was on my last demo job I had a Sawzall and 2 batteries and I couldn't wait for the damn things to die. If you're burning through 6 batteries in any tool faster than you can get 1 charged you need therapy, not electric power tools.I'm pretty much a one man band, if you would like to call that a "company". I can keep up to five batteries in cycle with my three bay charger and two single chargers, I don't like abusing them though, so more often I'm working with a corded tool if possible. If your working a set of batteries hard, especially here in Florida, you'll find batteries often won't be able to be charged because of overheat errors popping up on the charger, once you get a battery to that point, it usually takes two or more hours to get them back in service. One thing I can say for my Makitas and Hiltis, their fan cooled chargers do get overheated batteries back up and running faster, but I really wish they would offer multi bay chargers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutnamEco Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 The other day I was sitting around thinking and came up with what I thought was a great idea, until I found out it was already patented. I envisioned an 18V battery pack with a cord. The internal components would consist of an inverter rather than battery cells. The idea is that with this conversion pack any compatable cordless tool gains the ability to run off 110 AC in addition to the battery. The advantages are obvious. The user gains the ability to eliminate downtime due to recharging periods and never again have to choose between electric or cordless or fork out the cash for both. For the price of a conversion pack you'd have an electric and cordless everything. I can see where the manufacturers would have some reservations about it, but from a consumer perspective how awesome would this be?It looks like Black & Decker is offering a spin on the battery adapter idea with a modular tool system called the Matrix. Offering three bases with a bunch of attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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