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Poorly installed leaking water heater


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Another day another poorly installed leaking GE Water heater. Hey lets leave the connector off and pull the ground wire out and put it on the ground screw. This is disturbing to see obviously there's kids in the house, its in the garage next to there bikes. It only takes one time to hit the flex with something and it will short out. It looks like it shorted out already theres a burn mark on the connector. I don't know how you could possibly think this is okay and to just ignore it. No relief line, no pan, flex water heater connectors, electrical whip with pipe insulation on it? what a real mess. I hope they call back for the change out.

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I can't see pics is it just me I've had this problem on a few posts now idk

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Open in web view, I have to do that just about every post that has pics in it.

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You know this won't be the last time you see this either. One time is all it takes to have an electrical problem or hot water shoot out at someone at the right circumstance.... Which means you gotta cover your butt before you leave that house...

One time we were backed up on the schedule real bad so one of our hvac guys went to swap out a leaking water heater, I went back to check on him and there was no relief tube. Whats the deal with that I asked him? He says well the old one didn't have one on it. Are you serious right now!? Go back to your furnaces.

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Thanks Carl didn't know you could do that on phone but low and behold there it was

Wow that does look pretty messy rat workers without pride it sucks but there out there some just never get trained properly get teamed up with a ratty guy and that's how they learn and the rat legacy continues hope homeowners decide to let you fix it properly

I once quoted a job and people wanted the bandaid I was young and thought that customers knew what they wanted and we're always right. It bit me in the but ever since then it's right or it's not by me lesson learned

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On 3/12/2016 at 5:39 PM, KnarlyCarl said:

Open in web view, I have to do that just about every post that has pics in it.

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You know this won't be the last time you see this either. One time is all it takes to have an electrical problem or hot water shoot out at someone at the right circumstance.... Which means you gotta cover your butt before you leave that house...

One time we were backed up on the schedule real bad so one of our hvac guys went to swap out a leaking water heater, I went back to check on him and there was no relief tube. Whats the deal with that I asked him? He says well the old one didn't have one on it. Are you serious right now!? Go back to your furnaces.

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The electrical fire hazards I see everyday is just disturbing, don't know how I sleep at night. Well actually I don't sleep I have severe sleep insomnia..lol Haha I tell my inspectors the same thing. Me, It didn't have shock arrestors before all I did was put a cap on the stub out. The inspector laughs, I laugh, the homeowner cries..lol  Same goes for electrical, Me, Smoke detectors?? Not in this house. Inspector, It will have them on the final inspection. 

 

On 3/12/2016 at 6:09 PM, tonylandin said:

Thanks Carl didn't know you could do that on phone but low and behold there it was

Wow that does look pretty messy rat workers without pride it sucks but there out there some just never get trained properly get teamed up with a ratty guy and that's how they learn and the rat legacy continues hope homeowners decide to let you fix it properly

I once quoted a job and people wanted the bandaid I was young and thought that customers knew what they wanted and we're always right. It bit me in the but ever since then it's right or it's not by me lesson learned

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Yup, but theres nothing to fix it gets replaced the tank is leaking. 

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21 hours ago, KnarlyCarl said:

You're allowed copper or braided line, but you are right about the 18"

We can use anything here on an electric tank, even cpvc directly off the nipples. Its just so unprofessional to not hard pipe it. On tankless electric 36 inch's of copper pipe is required on the hot and cold side.

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23 minutes ago, Justin Hernandez said:

We can use anything here on an electric tank, even cpvc directly off the nipples. Its just so unprofessional to not hard pipe it. On tankless electric 36 inch's of copper pipe is required on the hot and cold side.

Interesting. Yeah, we have to have either of the copper or braided lines 18" off the top of the water heater tank. Recently, a county we do a lot of work in passed a new thing where every water heater we swap out has to be inspected, it used to be just inside the city in that county. I put in a new water heater, but the old one had cpvc all the way to it, doesn't matter, I had to add copper to make the 18" work

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On 3/14/2016 at 7:30 PM, KnarlyCarl said:

Interesting. Yeah, we have to have either of the copper or braided lines 18" off the top of the water heater tank. Recently, a county we do a lot of work in passed a new thing where every water heater we swap out has to be inspected, it used to be just inside the city in that county. I put in a new water heater, but the old one had cpvc all the way to it, doesn't matter, I had to add copper to make the 18" work

That sucks, What is there reasoning that cpvc cannot be used for the first 18"?? 

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Your right Protool everything is junk these days nothing lasts anymore, they don't build them like they use too. Solar is great here in Florida it is fairly popular free hot water all year long. Its just the cost I did a solar set up a while back for a customer and it was over $6,000. I was on the low end price wise they had estimates for double my price and some even higher. There's guys out there low balling jobs doing an electric water heater for only $600, so its a huge price difference. 

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Protool, like Justin said, you're right about junk water heaters any more. I do think there are brands better than others, but they are absolutely ridiculous with their short life span, it's a phenomenon we see ALL THE TIME. Its disgusting, really, I just shake my head and do my job, charge the customer and try to deflate their balloon. At my house, the previous owners put in a big whirlpool tub, and to feed it, two tank water heaters! I ripped them out right away and put in a tankless water heater, I think I did the right thing.

Protool, I can help you with the tankless water heater setup if you're curious, the only brand I'll really promote is Navien. I know why I really like this brand, but I dont know enough of others to tell you why not to get another brand, if that makes sense.

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Justin, I think the 18" of non plastic pipe is simply because of concern of the heat sitting on the pipe over a long term exposure, maybe making it extra brittle or some related failure. Not sure entirely.

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Yes, lets start with cost? Second can it be installed anywhere? Id like to re rout the lines out of closet. Were going to have a hell of a time getting the old tank out lol

Full retail price is $1655.00 for the standard model with included valve kit (see picture)

And

$1920.00 for advanced model with included valve kit. Advanced kit has a circulator and controls to keep water hot at certain times that you control.

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Valve kit you install on the water heater:

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It can be installed anywhere, with 1/2" gas line and 2" pvc venting thru wall or roof. Mounts on the wall and takes a small footprint.

Hope this helps

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Good info, problem is we don't have gas running to this property, so it would have to be an electric tankless water heater system.

Don't. Electric tankless are nothing but trouble, they take a ton of amp draw and burn out elements and are overall problematic.

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what are the cost versus savings, with these tankless units is it worth it? I realize they don't take up much space but what if that is not a factor? 

I want to look into this, as I'm putting some numbers together for my own use, as I have one in my house (a tankless unit)

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Well shit, looks like I will be back to square 1 replacing hot water tank with a new one.

If you want something that will last longer than a conventional tank unit, look at a brand called HTP. They are stainless steel tanks with a lifetime warranty, that seems to be the best option when looking at tank units, it sucks with the terrible track record the conventional tank heaters have, but that's out of my control. .

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Edit:

You're looking at $1200.00 for a 50 gallon electric stainless model

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I would love to switch to tankless, but everyone I know keeps saying waste of money. I think it's more a waste of energy keeping that 50 gallons hot all the time. I have natural gas and no good way to direct vent it outside. Currently y connected to the house boiler. I was even thinking of upgrading that to do both. Both think it would cost more then what I spend now.

John, Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[emoji848]

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6 hours ago, comp56 said:

what are the cost versus savings, with these tankless units is it worth it? I realize they don't take up much space but what if that is not a factor? 

That's hard to say it depends on your usage more demand more money saved. If theres only two people living in a house than IMO the high up front cost is not worth it, it would take forever to get your money back. You can go with a hybrid electric tank which saves a lot of money vs a standard tank, I have a post on here about it. I didn't talk about the energy savings but it is over twice as efficient as a standard tank. 

 

5 hours ago, KnarlyCarl said:

Don't. Electric tankless are nothing but trouble, they take a ton of amp draw and burn out elements and are overall problematic.

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Damn right could not agree more Carl, did you see my post I put up on Monday about a tankless electric?? That's interesting that tankless only needs a 1/2 gas line most need 3/4 and its not there so its a big expense to make it 3/4. I can't read what it says next to the 1/2 gas on the picture, 24 feet is all I can read. About the 18'' cpvc thing that's a load of crap its rated up to 180 degrees when is an electric tank going to go past that. If they fear it would become brittle over time next to the heater than why does your city allow it for the rest of the system. I know every city and state is different but that doesn't make any sense to me. Only on gas heaters we have to have some copper it can't be cpvc because the flue melts the pipe and it sags, I have seen it..lol

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4 hours ago, Glasseyi said:

I would love to switch to tankless, but everyone I know keeps saying waste of money. I think it's more a waste of energy keeping that 50 gallons hot all the time. I have natural gas and no good way to direct vent it outside. Currently y connected to the house boiler. I was even thinking of upgrading that to do both. Both think it would cost more then what I spend now.

John, Sent from my iPad using Tapatalkemoji848.png

 

5 hours ago, PROTOOLNUT said:

Well shit, looks like I will be back to square 1 replacing hot water tank with a new one.

Perhaps you guys should look into a Hybrid electric tank heater. Depending on the model they are over twice as efficient vs a standard electric tank they only need a 30 amp circuit for a 50 gallon model. The GE Geosprings sale for a 1000 you do have to add a condensate drain line but the rest of the install is just like a standard tank. They have a ten year warranty on tank so even if it only last you ten years thats only like $8.50 a month over the units lifetime. 

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Missed your posts I think, been real busy and kinda picking up topics here and there.

This brand of tankless can use 1/2" line up to 24' away from the main branch, it's one of the special features of the Navien. It can sustain a 6" wc pressure drop, by "sucking" the gas in.

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About the value and savings wise, a tank gas water heater is about 60% efficient, the Navien is 98% efficient. There are more efficient tank units available, like a power vent, but by far, the most common is the standard 60% models. It will take longer for the savings to be worthwhile if it gets used less than a family of three or more. You don't run out of hot water though, and there is energy tax credits for them I believe. Tanks will keep you supplied with hot water for the day even if power goes out in the city, tankless will not.

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Navien claims the highest efficiency of any tankless, if that's true, the average cost per year for natural gas is about $170, and for a tank unit, is about $280 a year. Compared to electric units, there will be even bigger difference in savings.

$480 for conventional tank unit, $1700 for tankless, then you have to install them. Tank units give you 6 year warranty on the tank, 1 year for parts. Navien gives you 15 year warranty on heat exchanger, 5 years on parts, 1 Year for labor. If your tank unit goes bad in three years, you get a new tank, but, have to pay to replace it, or do it yourself. Then it goes out in 7 years and you're out of warranty. Tankless will carry that warranty for 15 years, but again, not the labor. You should have water quality checked to know if you should plan to flush the tankless out every year. A tank unit should really be flushed to remove build-up, but no one does that...

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The hybrid water heater you are referring to is the heat pump ones, Justin, is that what you mean?

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Protool what's wrong with your water heater?

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Your a great writer Carl!! Me on the other hand not so much as you can tell, but I know what I'm trying to say..lol I've been busy too, I feel like I abounded this place for the last two months. Trying to play catch up when I can, I'm so backed logged on topics to post. That 24' of 1/2 gas would help some people out but I see houses with only 1/2 mains a lot, they only have a stove and water heater. I don't believe there is any tax credits for gas heaters in my area but that would help with the cost if your town does. Yes savings does depend on your hot water usage. Yea I'am talking about the Hybrid electric heat pump. I realize that climate does matter for maximum savings on this type of heater but during the winter months it can be used on electric mode (heating elements). A.O. Smith has a ten year parts and tank warranty with one year labor. Cost to run depending on model $163-$194 a year with an energy factor of 3.24-2.74. Standard tank is almost $500 a year with a power factor of 0.95 which is better than older models do to the NAECA 3 standards which changed last year. Any water heater should be flushed yearly and tankless with vinegar every year. You do only get one year labor warranty on almost all heaters after that your on your own. What do you offer people who's only option is electric? I try to push Heat pumps because they can be used in heat pump mode year round here in Florida. I think that's the best and only option for an electric unit. What do you think?

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