Samuel L. Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 So today I finally noticed something about cordless batteries, nowadays its getting really frustrating all the company's marketing plans Dewalts "20 volt" and Milwaukee "Red Lithium" are two that come to mind but really one thing that stands out is that most people agree they are not at all what there hyped up to be but I noticed something today everyone is always slamming Dewalt 20 volt saying its the same as any other 18 volt but today I noticed something. A dewalt "20 volt" 3 amp battery can do more work than a Makita, Milwaukee, or Bosch 18 volt 3 amp battery. Now you might all think this is all fan boy bull crap but let me back up my statement with facts. Yes the output is the same and the amperage is the same but there whole 20 volt claim on the package changes something, Watts. Watts: The amount of physical power in the battery When they make batteries they take the number of watts divide it by the voltage and then you have the amps, when dewalt makes there claim of 20 volts (when under no load actually 18 volts) but because they say this they have to divide the number of watts by 20 instead of 18 like everyone else meaning that a 4 amp dewalt battery has 80 watts and Milwaukee or Makita has 72 watts so yes there is a small difference but its still there. If Makita and Milwaukee did this on there batteries there 5 amp batteries would only rate 4.5 amps. You can check your self the amount of watts is stated on the bottom of every battery but usually very small and hard to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERemodeling Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 im not sure if im following you and i dont want to poo poo on you if your seeing something that im not but..... dewalt batteries arent actually 20V they are 20v max that max is important because it is saying that 20v is the max the battery can physically charge too.. all 18v batteries are actually 20v max makita, milwaukee, bosch.. all of them. the instant you squeeze the trigger on all of these tools the battery drops from 20 down to 18 then it slowly goes down from there. the cells in these batteries are typically 5 tandem cells (usualy 10 individual cells all together) that all have a max capacity of 4v and an actual usable output of 3.6v its really just all marketing, and obviously good marketing at that, but nothing else.. here are a few resources in case you havent seen them http://www.coptool.com/power-tool-voltages-still-confusing-pros-is-20v-max-more-powerful-than-18v/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadlanthier Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Let's just face it dewalts got more power. Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john92awd Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I get what your saying. The dewalt 4ah pack says 80 watts and other 18v packs say 72 watts. Watts is a measurement of "power" so... but I would like to see a real comparison and the best way would be to use the same tool with a battery adapter to use both batteries on the same tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERemodeling Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 My guess, but only a guess, would be that the Dewalt has the max potential of 80w but really only 72w like all other packsfor the split second right off the charger the battery could potentially show 80w but again as soon as you put any load on the tool it would drop down to 18v or 72w and be the same as all other packs.so essentially a makita 4ah pack also has 80w for the same brief moment off the charger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordraw Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 As long as they last long enough to do the job that's all that matters to me. The 20 volt thing does seem like a gimmick in a way but who knows. If they are working at making better and better batteries that is the key. Nice article Samual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan m Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 over in Ireland. we have 18 volt tools. none of that max carry on as so happens I have one of my 4 ah batteries beside me.. it states 72 WH on the bottom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yeah it's all marketing bullcrap Really. Lithium Ion cells are 3.6 or 3.7 Volts. These cells get charged at around 4 or 4.2 Volts maximum depending on charger/brand. The end results is that the cells are close to 4 Volts fully topped of. But it's a marketing trick. The moment you drain the least amount of power from the battery it'll drop down to their "nominal" voltage which is 3.6 or 3.7 Volts. and with 5 cells in serie that will make 18 Volts. 20 Volt Max is a marketing term just like 12 Volt or 40 volts. These are all completly thesame batteries who all have Lithium Ion cells with Nominal voltage of 3.6 / 3.7 volt.And all of them will have a "topped" off voltage of 20v / 12v / 40v... untill you drive in your first screw. Marketing at it's best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john92awd Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I have no doubt it's marketing, the 72 vs 80 watt claims is what makes the gears turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERemodeling Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I have no doubt it's marketing, the 72 vs 80 watt claims is what makes the gears turn here is my thought if we can agree that a 20v battery is actually just an 18v with a little marketing fluff added then the same applys to the watts... those extra "8 watts" are a direct result of the 2 extra fluff volts (on a 4ah).. the 8 watts only exist up to the first pull of the trigger and they they are gone. a makita, milwaukee etc. battery could also technically say they have 80w because they dothe "20v" (18v) batteries really only have 72 usable watts im really not trying to argue with anyone and am fully accepting the fact that i may be wrong, im not an electrical engineer but i do think i have a pretty good understanding of thisim just trying to make sure there is accurate information out there so people can make informed decisions about their tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERemodeling Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 it is the same game as 10.8 and 12v 12v tools are all actually marketed the same way 20v tools are marketed. they are really only 10.8v the reason this isnt such a point of confusion is because all manufacturers seemed to jump on the same boat when 12v tools went main stream so thats how we compare all of them equally.. 18v was already established and many manufacturers were well situated with their current battery design and nice product line. dewalt decided to redesign their battery pack (first shitty thing i think they did) and at that point took advantage of the opportunity to call their new 18v design "20v" (which was the second shitty thing i think they did) it is sort of like bringing a gun to a knife fight.. they are relying on the fact that the general population will take their word for gold and assume that their tools are actually slightly more powerful.. its all just a lie. I dont have any hate towards dewalt or others for doing this.. if i was the ceo if one of those companies i would have probably made the same call.. however i just hope that people buy dewalt tools for the actual features, specs and quality of the tool, not becasue they think they are getting a more powerful "20v'" instead of 18v.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel L. Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Wow didn't mean to start a debate here, I only saw it and thought oh that's interesting should mention it to the forms. Oh and to try to explain what a watt is better: watts is work done over time, more watts=more energy that can be converted to work. 745.7 watts = 1 horsepower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 hahaha =D No debate. just a typical issue / question popping up from time to time Here in belgium the only thing you'll find is Milwaukee with their m12 line. All other companies use the normal 10.8 , 18 and 36V name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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