Conductor562

Forgive me Wayne, but what exactly is a "car boot sale" ?

Been looking at the 2 amp Makita for $50 @ HD. I think it will work quite nicely for my detail applications and besides, you can't have to many tools can you?

You'd be surprised how many people don't know about Proto. They're the top tier brand offered by Stanley. They are 100% American made. I got turned on to them by my Dad who was supplied Proto stuff by his employer. He told me about all the abuse they took without compromise and started bringing me home what extras he could. They don't always have the flashy look of the tool truck brands, but man are they top notch. Believe it or not they're sometimes hard to acquire. You can't buy directly from them, they don't have a truck distribution system, they aren't associated with any physical retail chain, and they spend next to nothing on advertising. They don't fool around with Nascar or the DIY shows, their entire business is heavy industry. The best selection is through Granger but you know how that goes. I get most of my stuff from ebay or the through Toolup.com/proto Due to their relative obscurity you can also find them at flea markets and yard sales for cheap. Their combination wrenches are killer as are their ratchets. They offer about 4 different styles. I prefer their Pear head ratchets. They're 60 tooth, have a sturdy look and feel about them, and are available in 2 or 3 different lengths depending on which size drive your dealing with. They also have round head ratchets that are 72 tooth. I only have a 1/4 round head but I like it so well I think I'll have myself a 3/8 version as well. They have an aerospace ratchet for specific applications. If they ever bust they'll send you a rebuild kit that takes about 5 minutes to change out. They offer 2 types of screwdrivers. One is the old school looking clear/yellow plastic handled models while the other is a very nice cushion grip which strongly resembles the Wiha design. I'm also very fond of their adjustable wrenches. Very little jaw wobble compared to most others I've used. They certainly aren't as convenient to buy or exchange as Snap-On, Matco, Craftsman, etc, but there shouldn't be much exchanging required.

The website I found listed at $495 but I believe it was in a non-USD currency. I'm going to guess it's primarily a european tool and the US models employ a converter box rather than a tool designed solely for US distribution. I may be way the hell off, but that's the most logical explanation I can conjure.

Never met the guy. I just stumbled upon this during my Internet tool quest. Having known that Proto descended from plomb it caught my eye.

Amen Eric.

Well thank you Abhilashia! We now know the most basic function of a drill press. What do you know about screwdrivers or claw hammers?

Check them out on YouTube. Looks pretty sweet. Any idea what they retail for?

I've got lots of Milwaukee tools and I can honestly say I never had a serious gripe about any of them....until I bought their 1/4 sheet palm sander. All things considered it's a good tool. It's 3 amps where most are either 2 or 2.5 and it's built like an armored truck, by far the most powerful I've used. It's great for smoothing out a rough surface or shaping corners but in finer detail applications it almost has too much power. My only complaint is with the paper clamp system. It is awful! If it were 1/1000th of a degree harder to change it would require 2 people. It's like a Ferrari with 4 flat tires. I've noticed they've gotten pretty hard to find and when you do find them they're usually refurbished. Anyone heard of or seen an updated model? Am I off base in thinking that's likely the reason for the unavailability?

I've got a Makita 12" compound miter and I love it.

BTW, Proto tools are the primary brand for the Army, Navy, Air Force, NASA, GM, Chrysler, Ford, most major oil, chemical, gas, and railroad companies, Boeing, and the list goes on and on. They're the real deal.

Determining who makes the best of anything usually amounts to nothing more than personal prefferance. I like Channellock pliers because I've owned their products for as long as I can remember. I still have the same pair of 420 Channellocks my dad gave me to keep me occupied while he was working in his garage when I was 5 years old. I give them to my little boy to play with and the Lord willing maybe he'll do the same. There's just something about them that makes them feel right in my hand. Can I say they're better than Klein, Knipex, or Snap-On pliers? No I can't, but I feel confident in saying they're just as good. I don't make a living with them, but I use them at least 3 or 4 times a week and I've had them for 25 years so I can't complain. Buy yourself quality tools. If you do you'll enjoy them, you'll be proud of them, and the extra money you spent to get them will never cross your mind. I've seen a lot of people cuss at their Chinese junk tools and slam them against the wall, but I've yet to see the first Proto or Snap-On ratchet hit the wall. You get what you pay for. Buy the best tools you can afford and you'll never be sorry. Your one of us, you may not realize it yet, but you are. The fact that this guy "criticized your items" prompted you to seek out advice means it's in your blood. Next thing you know your homeowners insurance provider will as for pictures of your tools because they think your tool inventory claims are embellished. Be sure and let us know what you decide to go with.

Being something of a history buff and a big fan of Proto tools, I felt compelled to share this article. The gentleman spent several years researching the history of his favorite brand of tools. He is now terminally ill and I felt I owed it to him to share this. Not sure if the link works so you may have to copy and paste the address. Enjoy. http://www.vannattabros.com/plomb/plombtool.html

I really liked the innovation that went into the copper tubing cutter. I wish I needed on, lol.

"holding his drill aloft giving it "THE POWER OF GREY SKULL" thinking he's He Man" Guess you guys had Masters of the universe in the UK too. He-Man was awesome, but not as awesome as G.I. Joe.

The Stiletto hammers are awesome if your willing to take out a loan to acquire one. I'll keep an eye out for the new Stanley. Hope it isn't $250 like the Stiletto's are.

Ouch, having your tools criticized for their shittiness is the equivalent of your high school girlfriend telling your buddies you were lacking in the man area. There are several top notch tool brands to be had, the real question is how much coin are you willing to drop to obtain them. My personal preference is Proto. They are top of the mark in terms of quality. The downside is that they are not as widely available as some of the other brands and the best selection is through the supply houses that charge 25% over the actual value of the tools. I buy most of mine on ebay or have my dad....borrow them from his employer. Snap-On, Matco, and Mac are all great tools but again they come at a price. Cornwell, Williams, there's a bunch. Look, tools are something that if you buy the right ones your grandkids will be using them. Unless you have an immediate need for a lot of them in a hurry just pick out a good brand, buy them little by little over time as your finances permit, and you'll never be sorry. I don't know much about what's available up your way but anything with a lifetime warranty will suit you well. Make sure it's a real lifetime warranty and not one of those Harbor Freight, gotta have the receipt for the ratchet you got in a set your grandmother got you for Christmas 9 years ago or your shit out of luck, lifetime warranties. I want my repairman to walk away feeling ashamed that he works on shit for a living and my tools are far superior to his. My favorite tools are as follows: Power tools: Milwaukee Mechanics tools: Proto (Snap-On is just as good) Pliers: Channellock (Knipex also makes awesome pliers if your into german stuff) Screwdrivers: Klein or Proto Hammers: Estwing (Proto makes some awesome ball peen hammers) Punches & Chisels: Dasco (Truthfully, if I had it to do over I'd just buy cheap ass P&C's) To be fair, all of my sockets under 1" are Kobalt while my ratchets and 1"+ sockets are Proto. I bought the Kobalt sockets in a different time and while they have a true lifetime warranty and would probably be more than sufficient, I have a moral objection to recommending them. Just suck it up, go with Proto, Snap-On, or Matco, and you'll never be sorry other than when you balance your checkbook.

There is quite a difference in using coal in the manner that we do and the manner in which China does. The EPA serves a purpose, I'll not dispute that, but the last 3 years that purpose has been to police an agenda under the false pretense that it is for the environment. I've seen mine permits that 1,000 people were depending on to support their families revoked on paperwork errors, bullshit technicalities, and any number of ridiculous reasons. Coal is perfectly environmentally sound when used properly, the EPA's job is to make sure it's being used properly, not to ensure that it's not used at all. Where in America is this utopia of microchip producing factories full of highly skilled people who carry the American dream upon their capable shoulders? Is it in California? The worst State in America in terms of finances, choking to death on the consequence of it's own policies. I'm not sure where it is, but I can sure as hell tell you where it isn't. It isn't in Detroit, MI where entire middle class sub-divisions have been bulldozed to the ground. It isn't in Weirton, WV where the the furnaces that fueled the livelihood of a few thousand blue collar families have long ago went cold. Same with Youngstown, OH and the list goes on an on. You can attribute it to whatever reason or excuse you like, it doesn't make a damn to me, I'm not here for politics, but the undeniable truth is that America is losing ground and nobody's doing shit to fix it. What do our kids have to look forward to? A nice clean rock to live under? They'll have plenty of clean air to thank the EPA for while they're standing in line to collect their food stamps. There's a happy medium to be found but nobody seems to be looking for it. The industry that we're squashing in the name of the environment is the very industry that cuts the paychecks that separates America from the list of 3rd world countries. There's nothing wrong with the environment being A priority, but it cannot be THE priority.

It's sad that China is such a thriving economy while ours just withers and dies. Take the railroad coal business for example. Domestic coal for power plants and such is down to record level lows. Now, there are multiple reasons for this such as the very mild winter we had causing less demand for electric heat, the cheap natural gas prices, the loss of most of the United States steel industry, and an all out assault by the EPA on the permits needed to produce the coal. Mines are shutting down almost weekly and with them go most of the top paying jobs in our state. However, China is buying coal, especially metallurgical coal used in steel making, like it's going out of style. They recentley spent $50,000,000 in Newport News, VA to double their capacity to load the ships lined up and down the coast with coal bound for China. We shipped record tonnage to China last year and we're looking to nearly double that this year. The moral of this unnessecarly long story is that the demand for cheap ass China steel and the junk they make with it is the only thing keeping us here in coal country working. China doesn't care about all this global warming crap, they care about prospering from the manufacturing base we've regulated away all while we're drowning in our own stupidity. These idiots in D.C. concern themselves with shit like student loans, gay marriage, and wether or not Barry Bonds took steroids, while the manufacturing base that made America what it is has ran away to China. It's not political, it's not theological, it's about common damn sense! If World War III were to start tomorrow what would we do? We don't have the ability to produce anything or the people with the skills nessecary to produce it. I'm afraid we're at the point of no return. Hope I'm wrong. Guess I should use my cheap ass ratchet with a smile on my face and joy in my heart.

If China is such a fine producer of high quality tools, who can we turn to for shitty ones? Vietnam?

I know it man, it's depressing. Couple months back I bought a Klein Stubby multi-bit screwdriver because it was a tad shorter than the regular stubbies and I had lost the phillips anyway. Brought it home, opened it up, and as I was tossing the package in the trash I was absolutely horrified at what I saw. MADE IN CHINA! That's right, Klein tools and Made in China in the same sentence. Counting nut drivers I have 33 Klein cushion grip series products and I could now give a shit less if they all got lost. I emailed Klein to express my extreme displeasure and their response was something to the effect of "Great advancements in the manufacturing processes and capabilities of the Chinese allow us to now offer our customers the professional quality products they demand, at a lower price point than ever before. Klein tools has never closed a US manufacturing facility and has no immediate plans to do so." Oh, well then, to hell with us Americans with all our bellyaching about benefits, cost of living, and working conditions. I should piss my pants with joy for Klein to be so gracious to afford me the incredible bargain of paying $12.00 for a 2 1/2 long Chinese screwdriver. The extra $1-2 for one forged in Illinois, USA would have been a total deal breaker. I'd have probably sworn off Klein forever and replaced them all with Harbor Freight junk. People who buy Klein buy them for their quality and reputation, they don't buy them for their "price point". If other tool guys are like me, I get suspicious when I see a traditionally quality tool at Task Force prices. If I wanted a shitty screwdriver I'd have got one of those "Pittsburgh" pieces of shit for $2 or less at Harbor Freight or somewhere, not one that had to unlocked by someone so I could get it off the shelf. I'm a really a minority on this? Do people really not die a little inside over this stuff? I'm genuinely curious. I'm ok with electronics and cheap disposable things being made over there, that's always been their thing, but hand tools? When I was growing up Chinese tools were marketed to the guy who needed instruction on changing the battery in his car or installing a new door knob, not professional tradesmen. I'll shut up and go away now, I've stated enough of my displeasures.

I had to accept the power tool reality though. There's no such thing as American anymore. Milwaukee and Dewalt both majority Chinese. Sad...

Jesus, I have a problem. I need professional help.

They are 72 tooth gears and have a nice feel. I invested pretty heavily in the Kobalt line in the mid/late 90's (back when I first got addicted to tools) at the suggestion of my neighbor who was a professional mechanic and had started buying some of it himself to get the Snap-On monkey off his back. He was right, it was great stuff and felt alot better in your hand than the Craftsman stuff. However, by the early 2000's I started noticing some Chino stuff. At first it was just scrapers, tape measures, and stuff like that, while their core tools like ratchets, screwdrivers, combo wrenches, and stuff were still made stateside. I could live with that, besides, I wasn't a professional mechanic, just a snotty nosed teenager trying to keep my old 5.0 Mustang on the road, I still wasn't crazy about it, but I was willing to chalk it up to the times we live in. Over the last couple of years it has become a different story entirely. I walked around Lowe's for an hour and was unable to find a single Kobalt tool stamped USA. I was already pissed at Lowe's for dropping Milwaukee and this was the last straw. As I stand in my garage and look around at all the great Kobalt stuff I've got like the old screwdrivers, man, you couldn't kill those things, identical to a Snap-On only blue. You could....anyway, back to my point, it makes me sick! Maybe I'm making too big a deal out of this or maybe it's my grandpa's old war prejudices speaking to my subconscious mind, but either way I'm pissed. I'm a Railroad man, the only tools I use for work are a lantern and a leatherman, but It kills my soul to pick up a cheap ass tool. If I'm not at work I'm in the garage tinkering with something. The projects we do are the tightest bond my Son and I have and surrounding myself with the best AMERICAN tools I can afford makes me happy. If that's wrong than I guess I'll just have to be wrong. I'm still stuck on the idea that the American worker is something worth supporting. I make a nice living and if I have shell out twice as much of it for Proto, Klein, or another brand because it cost more to make it here then so be it. It might take me a couple years, but if I take the notion I'll replace every Kobalt tool I have. You can tell a lot about a guy by the tools in his garage, and I sure as hell don't want anyone getting the wrong idea about me.

The M18 will suit you well. They make alot more stuff in M18 as opposed to M28. With the vastly improved quality and performance of the M18 stuff I wouldn't be surprised if they don't start phasing the M28 stuff out eventually. The new Fuel Hammer Drill is a beast! Haven't got to play with the driver yet.