OldDominionDIYer

I was interested when I started seeing "brand clones" I'll call them and did a little digging, and here's what I found - Now mind you this is not a full list but is a good start. Manufacturer Brands Apex Tool Group (ATG) Apex Fastening Tools, Belzer, Campbell, Cleco, Crescent, Delta, Dotco, Erem, Gearwrench, HKP, Jacobs, Jobox, Lufkin, Nicholson, Recoules Quakenbush, SATA, Weller, Wiss, Xcelite Atlas Copco Chicago Pneumatic, Edwards Chevron Skil, Skilsaw, (MFRs some Craftsman, Kobalt under license) Emerson Ridgid – (Non Power Tools), Proteam, Workshop Great Neck Great Neck, OEM, Sheffiel, Mayes, Goldblatt, Others Griffon Corporation Ames True Temper Harbor Freight Tools Central Machinery, Central Pneumatic, Chicago Electric, Pittsburgh Tools, US General, Cen Tech, Drill Master, Earthquake, Hercules, Bauer Hilti Hilti Hitachi Koki Hitachi, Metabo, Lurem, Elektra Beckum Husqvarna Group Husqvarna, Weed Eater, Poulan, McCulloch, Others Ideal Industries Western Forge, Pratt-Read, SK Hand Tools Illinois Tool Works Paslode, Ramset, Redhead, Others Ingersoll-Rand Ingersoll-Rand, Others Knipex Knipex KTC KTC Makita Makita, Maktec Panasonic Panasonic Positec WORX, Rockwell Tools Robert Bosch GmbH Bosch, Dremel, Rotozip, Diablo, Freud, Vermont American Sandvik Sandvik Snap-on Snap-on, Bahco, Blue-Point, Williams, CDI Torque Products, Sun diagnostic tools in Europe and Brazil Stanley Black & Decker Black & Decker, DeVilbiss Air Power, DeWalt, Porter-Cable, Bostitch, Mac Tools, Proto, Blackhawk, Sidchrome, Stanley Hand Tools, Husky, Craftsman, Irwin - (Vise Grip, Marples, Quick Grip, Hanson …), Lennox / American Saw and Manufacturing Company, Vidmar ANDREAS STIHL AG & Co. Stihl, Viking TTI Milwaukee, AEG/RIDGID Power tools (under license), Ryobi, Homelite, Hoover, Vax, Bissell, Dirt Devil, Empire, Oreck TTC Toro Lawn Equipment Yamabiko Corp ECHO OPE TTS (Tool technic Systems) Festool, TANOS

I'm sorry but all factual evidence I have states Dewalt went with 20700, unless you can show me otherwise I'll trust my sources. I have no intention of explaining what happens to Dewalt tools I can see what's happening!

I'm not "moving goal posts" you folks seem to like to make a lot of assumptions! I said and I quote "the beginning of the end for 20V Max" that doesn't imply or indicate that Dewalt will stop producing these tools tomorrow, it means they will gradually phase in their new flexvolt system as they remodel future tools that can benefit from the higher output batteries. Geez calm down, have I touched on a sore subject? Oh and its 20700: https://syonyk.blogspot.com/2017/04/dewalt-20v-max-60ah-pack-teardown.html https://toolguyd.com/dewalt-dcb230-20v-3ah-battery-pack/ Enjoy your Holiday!

Whoa guys easy! Do 20V Max batteries work In FlexVolt tools? Because all tools that could benefit from Higher output battery packs will be FlexVolt and not compatible with the older 20V Max system. No it's as I said "the beginning of the end", NOT the end, Oh and Dewalt is using 20700 not 21700 battery cells in the FlexVolt and other new batteries. You all need to realize Dewalt did not go all-in on flexVolt for nothing every single tool that requires high output energy will get converted to FlexVolt I guarantee it! Otherwise they will not be competitive, and its all about leading the industry which Dewalt cannot do with their 20V Max alone.

My understanding is that FlexVolt utilizes 20700. Have they produced anything in 21700 yet, not to my knowledge but I don't stay up on Dewalt as much.

Because it is, 20V Max is going away. They will continue to produce for many years into the future but technology has moved on 18650 batteries are going away, and Dewalt is heavily invested in the 60V Flexvolt system and it is an excellent solution. Eventually all their tools will be completely refreshed to allow them to take advantage of the 60V flexvolt system at which point you will be unable to buy a 20V max (professional level) tool it will only be built to the new 60V Flexvolt architecture. Realistically professionals will need to refresh their own equipment so it won't be a huge deal but it will catch a few out in the cold. BTW Dewalt didn't play the deceptive advertising game until after they were bought out by Black & Decker, so again I get that it was a corporate plan not a Dewalt plan just to bad B&D couldn't let Dewalt keep rocking along, they didn't need their "help". It's clear to me B&D bought Dewalt to get ownership of their class leading technology.

I was not fooled as you may have surmised by my comments, and I am not being negative. The thread asks why or WHY NOT? does it not? I am simply expressing my experience and why I made my decisions and have not suggested that others should or should not consider these issues, but I did. I wasn't aware I was projecting a "worldview" I thought I was explaining why I chose a different brand than Dewalt, last time I checked that isn't a crime. No world views for me, I've traveled the entire world (except Antarctica) so if you would like some I would be happy to offer them in another venue, but this thread is about a person's personal decision to chose or not chose a particular brand of tools it really isn't important AT ALL. Therefore calm down and please stop trying the attach labels and bully me my opinion it will not change. Any reasonable objective reader can see I provided information (all completely fact based) that led me to spend my money elsewhere, and they can decide for themselves if those are concerns they care about when it comes to investing in a cordless tool platform. Feeling guilty yet?

Unlike the days before cordless consumers were free to invest in any brand that suited them, my dad had Bosch drill, Skil brand circular saw, some beautiful older Porter Cable routers etc... With corded tools there was no need to subscribe to "brand loyalty, they all had the same plug! The onset of cordless technology brought the need to chose a battery "platform" and even though I owned a few different cordless tools, (Porter Cable, Craftsmen, Dewalt) they were all old and quickly going to be obsolete. So when I had a big project on the horizon I knew I wanted to make an informed decision about where I was about to pour a bunch of my hard earned cash and not make a mistake by buying the first product I find a good deal on, I knew I was going to be wanting to make a long term investment and not impulse buy. So with my project looming a few months in the future I decided to invest in a single battery platform I looked closely at Red (Milwaukee), Yellow (Dewalt), Teal (Makita) and Blue(Bosch) mainly. What I found was they are all great tools each with there own strengths and weaknesses. Blatant deceptive advertising turned me off of Yellow, the limited variety steered me away from Blue and I was down to either Red or Teal. Ultimately I went all in on Milwaukee and have been exceedingly pleased with that decision. Again I want to say that while I spend most of my money on Red tools I completely recognize that all the others make great products as well. I just couldn't afford to buy into multiple battery systems so out of fiscal limitations I forced myself to chose and like I said I am very pleased, I have no regrets. As a DIYer I don't put my tools through the level of rigors many professionals do but I do use them and I don't baby them either I expect to get the most out of my tool and my investment. I own more than fifteen M18 and six M12 tools so far (three years in) with many more on my list. I will be investing in the Packout mobile tool storage and transport system next (currently using the Stanley Mobile Workstation though I have reached it's limits but it has served me well). I want Milwaukee to get crackin' and build an M18 Framing Nailer I can't wait much longer! I am purchasing the new Skilsaw SPT99-12 Jobsite table saw and wheeled cart next, man that thing is awesome! I just recently purchased the Ridgid 12" sliding compound miter saw (Model R4221) which offers 70 degree angle to both sides and I got the Ridgid gravity wheeled stand to go with it and both have performed beautifully since arrival. When it comes to cordless platforms I am completely satisfied with Milwaukee and will continue to invest in there awesome tools.

I am fully aware that all the companies use 12V instead of 10.8V and for the consumer it is transparent because they all do it, so there is no disparity therefore no confusion, but when one company choses to label the batteries differently (B&D Group) they are clearly doing it to deceive and no other reason. You say Milwaukee is the "worst offender" yet you fail too mention even one factual example of their bad behavior. I understand brand loyalty and I get it, but a little honesty wouldn't hurt. I readily admitted that Dewalt makes great tools, but it is a personal decision for me not to reward them for their blatant deceptive advertising, especially since they don't seem to have any real reason to do it, unless perhaps they actually do?

I don't dislike Dewalt tools, I own several corded ones but when it came to choosing a cordless platform I didn't choose to put my investment into Dewalt for a couple of fundamental reasons. First I didn't like that they chose to rate their drills in UWO rather than the industry standard IN/LB or FT/LB simply so that the consumer could not readily compare "apples to apples". Even if it is perhaps a better method it fails to offer the consumer the tools to make an informed decision. Doing so appears to be a deliberate decision to confuse the buying public, perhaps in their favor, perhaps not. Secondly the marketing decision to rate their 18V batteries as 20V Max which is not in accordance with the industry standard in how battery output is defined as being measured and labeled (using the nominal voltage output delivered over the life of the charge), it is purposefully deceiving to the buying public again to what end I wonder? And then there is the regular planned obsolescence of their battery platforms, where 20V Max is now at the beginning of its end while they usher in a very nice (but also very complex) and expensive 60V Flexvolt system which is not backward compatible, oops! I'm sure they didn't intend to do that! There's also the tragic business decision Dewalt made to basically cease development of their 12V cordless system, I believe there is real value in that platform, clearly Bosch and Milwaukee appear to be thriving within this platform. These are many of the reasons I chose to invest in a different company when the time came for me to decide where to invest thousands of my hard earned dollars. My general perception based heavily on the above information and much more was that Dewalt displayed a regular and consistent message of deception to the buying consumer and it was not an ideal that I felt comfortable buying into. That's not to say I haven't had periods of "tool envy" when Dewalt introduces tools that are not available from the brand I eventually bought into, it doesn't happen often but it still hurts! At least I can take comfort in the fact that this phenomenon exists amongst all brand loyalists...the real tragedy is Dewalt makes excellent products that I'm sure are at or near the top in most product lines which makes their persistent and repeated decision to deceive the consumer even more perplexing and in my opinion completely unnecessary.