dwain Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 I think I agree ^^ I would only argue that altering the 'Ah' rating of the battery will confuse people, and that we're best of just continuing to address the fact that 20V Max is really just 18V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy MSG Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 9 hours ago, dwain said: I think I agree ^^ I would only argue that altering the 'Ah' rating of the battery will confuse people, and that we're best of just continuing to address the fact that 20V Max is really just 18V. The reason DeWALT went with 20V Max versus 18V was strictly a marketing decision. They were making a change in the battery mounting system. Going from slide in the grip to slide on the grip. They did it purely to reduce confusion. Bosch went through a similar change first and had issues with people having one tool and ending up with the wrong battery mounting system when they purchased replacement batteries or usually when the owner sent someone else (like the wife) to pick up an extra battery. They did it strictly to avoid the confusion. They were working to prevent issues with the dumbest guy in the room, not the smartest. The more surprising thing to me is that they didn't do the same for the 12V lines although there are far fewer of both the 12V Max and 12V NiCads out there. I think it is because the 14.4 was so much more popular with more available tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Different naming schemes like V18 to M18 work fine too without BS numbers. There were multiple ways they could have approached it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The.Handyman Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Why do people get all hot and bothered from DeWalt using 20v max for the naming of their 18v battery line? It is not lying or deceiving as it is technically true. Every manufacturer here in us does it with their 12v battery line as those tools are all 10.8v nominal and 12v max. Both are correct. To me, it is up to the end user to do their research, feel the tool, and know what the product is they are buying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Because it's misleading nonsense. North America should be more like Europe w regards to bullshit marketing. M12/12V Max is also garbage nomenclature that shouldn't exist. Its not not lying per se, but is definitely deceiving. "Technically true". That you have to point out a technicality highlights the deceit. Is it important in the grand scheme of things? No, but it's all on the same slippery slope as exaggerated torque numbers/capability on these tools, or auto manufacturers with "best fuel economy. Most power. Most hauling. Most towing.* (*4 separate engine and cab configurations)". It's disingenuous and borderline anti-consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercorarius Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Last I checked we fought (and won) a couple wars so we didn't have to be more like Europe... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 And look how that's worked out . Kidding aside though, I don't see how anyone can defend the 20v nomenclature, or 12v, as being sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnarlyCarl Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 2x4, 2x6 etc lumber isn't really that, 16x20x1 pleated furnace filter isn't exactly that size, 100,000 BTU furnace isn't what you're really getting, 9 amp vacuum motor is a huge stretch of the imagination, and on and on..... Even our tax forms round up or down to the nearest dollar, it's all over the place. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Doesn't make any of it make sense, and most of those things are industry standard description, while 20v is the outlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercorarius Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Tbh I would really prefer 18v because 18 is a much more satisfying number than twenty. 18 would fit in better in an ideal world where we use a base 12 system. Ideally we would dump the bs 18v and use 16v because braingasm number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I didn't mean to start a 18 vs 20 volt war just that a couple of points of AH here or there really doesn't mean a whole lot. Also I think it's odd that the 12 volt lines are really 10.4 but I think it's more not wanting to use a decimal. M12 rolls off the tongue easier than M10.4... I guess it makes sense that Dewalt wanted to differentiate between the old 18v stick packs from the modern 20v slide ons, but then again it's funny they offer the adapter now to run the new packs on the old tool despite the 20-18 incompatibility ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 *M10.8 lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 My bad meant 10.8, 3.6x3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 The crazy numbers I see on the US electric tools/appliances are just bewildering. Exaggeration happens all over the place. Take these hifi stereo systems for example. They have maths to back up that 2450W rating, it's just REALLY bad math. I guarantee the amp has an input voltage around 400-500W https://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-home-entertainment/home-theatre/sony/sony-ht-m77-7-2-channel-muteki-home-theatre-system/554323/ I dislike that a lot. I dislike the US appliance nonsense ampere claims. I dislike claiming 20V instead of 18V a little. In Australia Dewalt were not allowed to call their gear 20V. I wish there were more regulations like this to prevent consumers from being misled. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmcmillan Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Not to mention the 6HP shop vacs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 45 minutes ago, jeffmcmillan said: Not to mention the 6HP shop vacs Exactly, total nonsense. 6HP is ~750W x 6 = 4500W. This is 37.4A out of 120V wall plug ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I would really like to see tools with power dials that go to ELEVEN, be way more powerful than just TEN. Also I have the new Dewalt orbital sander and the speed dial only goes to I think SIX!!! Come one Dewalt make it at least TEN...ELEVEN would be sweet though ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 43 minutes ago, dwain said: Exactly, total nonsense. 6HP is ~750W x 6 = 4500W. This is 37.4A out of 120V wall plug ..... Ridgid even has the 6.5HP, but they also say *PEAK HP to denote the difference. That said, it also owns everyone else in the CFM department so it is still a function to vaguely measure how powerful it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercorarius Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 You guys and your vacuums...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy MSG Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 On 6/28/2016 at 10:28 PM, JerryNY said: I didn't mean to start a 18 vs 20 volt war just that a couple of points of AH here or there really doesn't mean a whole lot. Also I think it's odd that the 12 volt lines are really 10.4 but I think it's more not wanting to use a decimal. M12 rolls off the tongue easier than M10.4... I guess it makes sense that Dewalt wanted to differentiate between the old 18v stick packs from the modern 20v slide ons, but then again it's funny they offer the adapter now to run the new packs on the old tool despite the 20-18 incompatibility ? I don't know the exact percentage, but my guess is there is probably 60-75% usability of old tools with new packs. The chargers will not work with it (it would be unsafe if they did). My understanding is the products with doors (the vacuum) and some of the lights won't, but the drills, saws and impact drivers will work with the new packs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Grumpy MSG said: I don't know the exact percentage, but my guess is there is probably 60-75% usability of old tools with new packs. The chargers will not work with it (it would be unsafe if they did). My understanding is the products with doors (the vacuum) and some of the lights won't, but the drills, saws and impact drivers will work with the new packs. I was being mildly sarcastic because there isn't really an incompatibility between 18 and 20 because they really are all 18. That being said I don't recall the voltages of the cells in the old nicads though. It is nice to be able to slap modern lithium batteries on old tools to give them more life. I know the old Ryobi stuff I have ran like new tools slapping the new pack on them. I have an old Ryobi 5-3/8 circular saw running the new 4.0 lithium packs with a Diablo blade on it and it stopped me from bothering getting an M12 fuel mini circ because it works so well. I already have the full sized fuel anyway but I keep that thing handy in the garage for any quick cuts I need. I'd imagine the same goes for Dewalts trusty old tools that get a new pack slapped on them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 23 hours ago, Stercorarius said: You guys and your vacuums...... LMAO! Anyone else notice they had a countertop microwave sitting under a under cabinet mount microwave? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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