Learn me something new about routers

[satchmodog]

Yeah, I know.

 

I have been using the same router and table since I started my business in 1994. It's a Craftsman, that's really all I know about the thing, other than it was old AF when I got it, as it was my grandfather's. I'm pretty sure we bought it for him as a Christmas gift in the early 80s. That being said, it's cut  miles and miles of sill nosings, table and cabinet edges and God knows what else. Today I started a job I bid on last fall, which is routing one edge of  1x4 and basically making an old style baseboard. This house is a mid 1860s farm house in Wisconsin that had another home built over it, so sometime in the past 100 years someone put up winder casing and base that was all hand milled. It's a cool project and getting the pine and the new Zar stain to patch the existing wood was a treat.

 

I break out my router today and the guy tells me "here, try mine, don't use that fossil", and he chuckled. So he breaks out this brand new Rigid router that he bought last year before he decided to hire the job out.  Thankfully he wanted to do the test cuts and see what depth and bit we were going to use, so I didn't wind up being the one who ganked his new toy lol

 

He runs one pass with this thing and then goes to shut it off and the switch is broken, so "The Fossil" wound up saving the day and ran an edge on 44-14 foot 1x4

 

But it got me thinking, the router I have is 6.5 amps and 25, 000 rpm and has a light by the arbor.

It's actually double insulated, unlike a lot of the power tools old gramps left behind. Nice silvery looking shock boxes. Ah, the good old days

 

Anyway, this thing isn't going to last forever, so maybe I should go looking at new routers. The one this guy had wasn't your typical mouse ear style, it was tall and lean and that kinda threw me. Is that style easier to use somehow vs the old squatty style?

 

Should I look for more RPM, more amps or any other features? I'd also love a new router table.

 

I'm just not spending Festool money and I am also sorry, but Porter Cable can lick me for what they are asking for some of theirs. It's a damn ghost brand tool now. If this were the PC of old like a few of my tools, I'd not think twice.

 

So throw me some names and such up to 250.00. Also, are there any features I should look for? In my entire life, this has been the only router to ever sit in my meathooks. I know how to use it well, I just don't know jack about them.

 

Crap, the 99 dollar Rigid seemed nice until it died

 

BTW, if anyone here is a tool savant and has a way to date Craftsman tools, my router is a 315.17480. It's by far the least expensive tool I own, it's a homeowner tool and it's probably 42 years old.

[SetBuilder]

I'm a big fan of porter cable routers and just about every crew I work on has PC routers.  I personally own 4 routers,  PC 7310 a PC 690,  PC 893 PC 7539 and a Ridgid laminate trimmer.  They all serve a purpose at different horse power ratings depending upon material and bit that I'm using. The PC 690 is a great meat and potatoes router the 893 is a step up in HP but not much more in weight and the 7539 is a beast for big bits or using template bits in 3/4 plywood.  

 

Sounds like a 690 or 893 would meet your needs.  

 

 

[rrich1]

Well that depends. I have three routers.

1. Triton 3.25 hp. Ita big, bulky, and powerful. That's why it lives in the router table. The nice thing about the Triton's is they were designed to be used in a table with no lift needed. Just take out the spring and you are good to go.

2. DeWalt 2.25 hp with fixed and plunge bases. This covers my .5" collet bits when I need toove around. Not sure where you live but if you can use a harbor freight coupon at home Depot it comes in at $160. Even less if your store does the Menards 11% rebate too.

3. Makita compact router with plunge and fixed bases. .25" collet machine that I use to round over edges, chamfer and other work if I have the correct bit.

The Bosch routers I have heard are excellent routers for under between $180 and $200. Makita sells a 2.25hp router with fixed and plunge base for around $230

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[Grumpy MSG]

Hate on the Porter-Cables if you want but their meat and potatoes tools forever have been routers and sanders. the big differences between today's 690s and those from 20 years ago are a dust sealed switch and more ergonomic knobs. Norm Abrams used one countless times on the New Yankee workshop. Meanwhile the 890s have an extra 1/2 HP and a few other nice features like an easy big adjustment/ micro-adjustment feature and 2 location switch, but can work with the same bases as the 690s. Both the 690s and 890s have multiple numbers 690, 691, 692 which annotate which accessories cone with the router like fixed base, plunge base, D handle and combo kits. Don't think they are tough? walk into a Woodcraft store see what routers they are using for their classes and see how old they are. 

 

if you insist you don't want the P-C though, Makita, DeWALT and Bosch all make nice routers. As for features, If I were going for one router I'd recommend one in the 1 3/4 to 2 1/4 HP range with variable speed, 1/4" and 1/2" collets and get it in a kit with a fixed and plunge bases. A little bit of work on your part and you should be able to hit your price point with a kit like that. If you wanted to add to that later, a trim router in the 1 HP range would be the next addition for roundover, laminate trimming and small work. If I were to get a third, it would probably be a second 1 3/4- 2 1/4 HP or 3 HP (depends on what size bits you want to use most often) specifically to leave mounted in a router table

[satchmodog]

12 hours ago, Grumpy MSG said:

Hate on the Porter-Cables if you want but their meat and potatoes tools forever have been routers and sanders. the big differences between today's 690s and those from 20 years ago are a dust sealed switch and more ergonomic knobs. Norm Abrams used one countless times on the New Yankee workshop. Meanwhile the 890s have an extra 1/2 HP and a few other nice features like an easy big adjustment/ micro-adjustment feature and 2 location switch, but can work with the same bases as the 690s. Both the 690s and 890s have multiple numbers 690, 691, 692 which annotate which accessories cone with the router like fixed base, plunge base, D handle and combo kits. Don't think they are tough? walk into a Woodcraft store see what routers they are using for their classes and see how old they are. 

 

if you insist you don't want the P-C though, Makita, DeWALT and Bosch all make nice routers. As for features, If I were going for one router I'd recommend one in the 1 3/4 to 2 1/4 HP range with variable speed, 1/4" and 1/2" collets and get it in a kit with a fixed and plunge bases. A little bit of work on your part and you should be able to hit your price point with a kit like that. If you wanted to add to that later, a trim router in the 1 HP range would be the next addition for roundover, laminate trimming and small work. If I were to get a third, it would probably be a second 1 3/4- 2 1/4 HP or 3 HP (depends on what size bits you want to use most often) specifically to leave mounted in a router table

I own a crap ton of Porter cable, from the 738 Tiger saw which has to be 20 years old now, the 352 3x21 belt sander and the 350 orbital palm sander, as well as the 200, 250 and 350 series nail guns. I've had my belt sander and palm sander as well as the tiger saw for 20 years and two of my nail guns are about 15. Now that all being said, I bought newer versions of the 200 brad nailer, 250 16 ga finish nailer and 350 framing nailer and these are not the same tools I bought before. I've seen the same belt sander and even it seems a little cheap. I won't even go into how big of junk their drills and saws have become. Believe me, I am no brand snob, but at one time if it didn't say PC or Milwaukee on it, I ddn't buy it. However, on your recommendation I will give the PC routers a look. I just hate spending money on what's essentially a ghost brand now. But, if they are taking their routers and sanders seriously still, I'll buy them. There's a lot they aren't taking seriously anymore and it makes me truly sad.

The horsepower thing is something I am wondering about. I see amp ratings on a lot of routers and some have HP. I am assuming the more HP, the better?

[satchmodog]

18 hours ago, rrich1 said:

Well that depends. I have three routers.

1. Triton 3.25 hp. Ita big, bulky, and powerful. That's why it lives in the router table. The nice thing about the Triton's is they were designed to be used in a table with no lift needed. Just take out the spring and you are good to go.

2. DeWalt 2.25 hp with fixed and plunge bases. This covers my .5" collet bits when I need toove around. Not sure where you live but if you can use a harbor freight coupon at home Depot it comes in at $160. Even less if your store does the Menards 11% rebate too.

3. Makita compact router with plunge and fixed bases. .25" collet machine that I use to round over edges, chamfer and other work if I have the correct bit.

The Bosch routers I have heard are excellent routers for under between $180 and $200. Makita sells a 2.25hp router with fixed and plunge base for around $230

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Hmm, interesting. There's part of me that always liked certain tools to be heavy for vibration and stability. Since I've only really used my old assed Craftsman router, I have no idea what weighs what. To me, the thing seems light, so I'll have to hold a few. I actually wouldn't mind one a tiny bit heavier.

 

I'm also looking for a new table. But that Triton was one I looked at, too. I've heard nothing but great things about their tools from other guys on jobs.

[SetBuilder]

2 hours ago, satchmodog said:

I am assuming the more HP, the better?

 

Better for what?  The big HP routers are a bear to use when making a lot of cuts.  This is 3/4 plywood but I used a PC 690 to cut out all the handles and a trim outer to do a round over on all the boxes. If I had big long cuts to make in 3/4 then I would have used a larger router.  Bigger is not always better, its what is appropriate.

 

When we make windows some crews have 3.5 hp routers set up in router tables and some have the router bit set up in 3 hp shapers , since they hog out so much material the HP is needed.

[satchmodog]

3 minutes ago, SetBuilder said:

 

Better for what?  The big HP routers are a bear to use when making a lot of cuts.  This is 3/4 plywood but I used a PC 690 to cut out all the handles and a trim outer to do a round over on all the boxes. If I had big long cuts to make in 3/4 then I would have used a larger router.  Bigger is not always better, its what is appropriate.

 

When we make windows some crews have 3.5 hp routers set up in router tables and some have the router bit set up in 3 hp shapers , since they hog out so much material the HP is needed.

Ah, OK. So basically for what I do with a router, HP doesn't really matter much, then. I am assuming what I have is a 1 HP machine and it has spent decades chewing through pine  and oak making sills for windows. Like the job I'm currently on is another example. I milled an edge on a few hundred feet of 1x4 to make baseboard. Most things a lot of you use routers for is beyond my paygrade at this stage of my life. I guess I'll be looking for a router with a few more rpm maybe and a few ounces heavier. I am also curious about the design difference between the routers with the mouse ears like I have vs the ones that are taller and thinner looking.

Like I said, my experience with routers is limited to a few things I've done for years and that's it.

[rrich1]

Hmm, interesting. There's part of me that always liked certain tools to be heavy for vibration and stability. Since I've only really used my old assed Craftsman router, I have no idea what weighs what. To me, the thing seems light, so I'll have to hold a few. I actually wouldn't mind one a tiny bit heavier.
 
I'm also looking for a new table. But that Triton was one I looked at, too. I've heard nothing but great things about their tools from other guys on jobs.

Some machines you do want heavy. Those I want to be stationary. The Triton 3 hp router is just too big and bulku for my liking to be used as an everyday router. Their plunge mechanisms is different as well. There is no changing bases. They make a smaller 2.25 hp router as well.

The DeWalt and Bosh routers are the same hp but one is taller than the other. I like the DeWalt as it has a detachable power cord which makes for easy storage. I tend to sway towards Bosch over DeWalt normally.

If you haven't used a small trim router don't discount it for certain jobs. The one handed use and smaller base really allows to get work done quickly on smaller pieces. So much so that I want to buy the cordless Makita as well. That would put me up to 4 routers as a hobbyist 🤣

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[satchmodog]

4 minutes ago, rrich1 said:

Some machines you do want heavy. Those I want to be stationary. The Triton 3 hp router is just too big and bulku for my liking to be used as an everyday router. Their plunge mechanisms is different as well. There is no changing bases. They make a smaller 2.25 hp router as well.

The DeWalt and Bosh routers are the same hp but one is taller than the other. I like the DeWalt as it has a detachable power cord which makes for easy storage. I tend to sway towards Bosch over DeWalt normally.

If you haven't used a small trim router don't discount it for certain jobs. The one handed use and smaller base really allows to get work done quickly on smaller pieces. So much so that I want to buy the cordless Makita as well. That would put me up to 4 routers as a hobbyist 🤣

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Thanks!  All good food for thought!

 

[Jronman]

@satchmodog I would suggest getting a router with around 1.5 - 2 hp and support for 1/2 in or smaller collets. It should do just about anything the average guy could want. If the router will live in a router table with lift then you wouldn't need the router to be anything fancy. A fixed base would be plenty. If you regularly use the router outside of the table then you may want to look at getting a plunge base in addition to the fixed.

[satchmodog]

9 hours ago, Jronman said:

@satchmodog I would suggest getting a router with around 1.5 - 2 hp and support for 1/2 in or smaller collets. It should do just about anything the average guy could want. If the router will live in a router table with lift then you wouldn't need the router to be anything fancy. A fixed base would be plenty. If you regularly use the router outside of the table then you may want to look at getting a plunge base in addition to the fixed.

Excellent.  I'm going to head out next weekend and give a look at what's out there. I will also give PC another look and actually just bought their oscillating tool. 

[Jronman]

8 hours ago, satchmodog said:

Excellent.  I'm going to head out next weekend and give a look at what's out there. I will also give PC another look and actually just bought their oscillating tool. 

How do you like the porter cable 20v max tools? I have heard mixed reviews on them. I would guess the woodworking tools are of a different quality than the cordless line.

[satchmodog]

7 hours ago, Jronman said:

How do you like the porter cable 20v max tools? I have heard mixed reviews on them. I would guess the woodworking tools are of a different quality than the cordless line.

I haven't checked out any of their 20v tools as of yet. As far as most things cordless go, I'm really not too interested other than drills and drivers. A cordless recip saw is on my radar and the Milwaukee seems to be the one to beat. I have not heard anything but boos for the PC recip saw, unfortunately. The Old Tiger saw I have is a monster of a saw and it makes me sad they cheaped out on making their new saw as rock solid.

[Jronman]

On 4/14/2018 at 5:55 PM, satchmodog said:

A cordless recip saw is on my radar and the Milwaukee seems to be the one to beat. The Old Tiger saw I have is a monster of a saw and it makes me sad they cheaped out on making their new saw as rock solid.

There are 2 High Demand recip saws out right now that can compete with the Milwaukee Gen 2 Fuel. The Makita x2 and the DeWALT Flexvolt.

 

The Flexvolt has a great build but is lacking in some features guys expect in modern recip saws. It is the worst performing of the 3. I like that it is built like a brick wall. You will find it is probably the closest in size and weight to a corded saw of the 3. The overmold on the front is excellent. Overall it gets 3rd place in most tests I have seen that include these recip saws. 

 

The Makita x2 still has a great build but the performance is class leading in my book. It matches the Milwaukee Gen 2 Fuel in performance and in some cases it outperforms the Milwaukee. In my opinion it is better than the Milwaukee. It also has a rafter hook, adjustable shoe, and 2 speeds which the Flexvolt does not have.

 

All these recips will compete with any non orbital corded recip saw.

I wouldn't disregard the Makita x2, but unless you are already in the Flexvolt line, I would not recommend getting the Flexvolt recip. 

 

On 4/14/2018 at 5:55 PM, satchmodog said:

I haven't checked out any of their 20v tools as of yet.

I thought I had seen you say earlier that you had some cordless Porter Cable. I guess I was wrong.

[satchmodog]

3 hours ago, Jronman said:

There are 2 High Demand recip saws out right now that can compete with the Milwaukee Gen 2 Fuel. The Makita x2 and the DeWALT Flexvolt.

 

The Flexvolt has a great build but is lacking in some features guys expect in modern recip saws. It is the worst performing of the 3. I like that it is built like a brick wall. You will find it is probably the closest in size and weight to a corded saw of the 3. The overmold on the front is excellent. Overall it gets 3rd place in most tests I have seen that include these recip saws. 

 

The Makita x2 still has a great build but the performance is class leading in my book. It matches the Milwaukee Gen 2 Fuel in performance and in some cases it outperforms the Milwaukee. In my opinion it is better than the Milwaukee. It also has a rafter hook, adjustable shoe, and 2 speeds which the Flexvolt does not have.

 

All these recips will compete with any non orbital corded recip saw.

I wouldn't disregard the Makita x2, but unless you are already in the Flexvolt line, I would not recommend getting the Flexvolt recip. 

 

I thought I had seen you say earlier that you had some cordless Porter Cable. I guess I was wrong.

I'm not sold on any one battery platform, I think you Rob yourself of some pretty great tools by disregarding other manufacturers. I'm not sure which Makita recip saw my brother had, but it was just OK. I'd surely not kick it out of bed for eating crackers but it just didn't have that solid rip down  My Everest feel a lot if corded saw have. But, I'll check it out for sure and give him a call. Plus, he owes me three grand lol. Dewalt has made some nice recip saws historically and we all know Milwaukee. Home depot was clearing out the orbital sawzall a few weeks ago. It was like 12-13 amps and 105 bucks. I should have bought it. But, I know nothing about orbital and didn't know if that was better, worse or what. But I really could use a good cordless. Makes humping up a ladder a breeze.

As far as Porter cable goes, no cordless for me there. All my PC equipment is corded from the 1990s and an assortment of air nailers. I've tried battery nail guns and just hate the things. They're slow as shit, jam too much and heavy AF.

[Mycrossover]

Hate on the Porter-Cables if you want but their meat and potatoes tools forever have been routers and sanders. the big differences between today's 690s and those from 20 years ago are a dust sealed switch and more ergonomic knobs. Norm Abrams used one countless times on the New Yankee workshop. Meanwhile the 890s have an extra 1/2 HP and a few other nice features like an easy big adjustment/ micro-adjustment feature and 2 location switch, but can work with the same bases as the 690s. Both the 690s and 890s have multiple numbers 690, 691, 692 which annotate which accessories cone with the router like fixed base, plunge base, D handle and combo kits. Don't think they are tough? walk into a Woodcraft store see what routers they are using for their classes and see how old they are. 
 
if you insist you don't want the P-C though, Makita, DeWALT and Bosch all make nice routers. As for features, If I were going for one router I'd recommend one in the 1 3/4 to 2 1/4 HP range with variable speed, 1/4" and 1/2" collets and get it in a kit with a fixed and plunge bases. A little bit of work on your part and you should be able to hit your price point with a kit like that. If you wanted to add to that later, a trim router in the 1 HP range would be the next addition for roundover, laminate trimming and small work. If I were to get a third, it would probably be a second 1 3/4- 2 1/4 HP or 3 HP (depends on what size bits you want to use most often) specifically to leave mounted in a router table

PC/Delta was Norm's sponsor. Not surprising. For years the big PC was the standard for router tables. Now there are a few other choices.

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