roadhog96

I just went down to the basement to check the saw again. This is really bugging me. I measured the gap between the two kerf plates and its 3/8" wide. I measured to the right of the saw blade and there's about 3/16" gap. I looked at the pivot shaft and noticed that the left side not only looked liked it had a little more space than the right spacer but the gap was full of saw dust. After I brushed it out, it was pretty obvious that the left spacer has a little less than a 1/8" gap. The second picture that's turned sideways doesn't show the gap because it was taken before I noticed it was full of packed dust. You would think that they should both be at least centered. The right spacer is up against the Trunnion which is what supports the shaft that has the torsion spring around it and mounts to the two slide rails. I believe the torsion spring Is pushing the upper arm assembly that the motor is mounted to the right because of the high tension trying to unwind. If the person assembling the saws at the factory doesn't take the time to center the blade by this adjustment then that explains why some are off to one side. Bottom line, if I loosen the two set screws and move the two spacers and spring to the left the whole upper arm assembly will shift to the left also. This will place the blade almost if not dead center between the kerf plates. This adjustment is something that is not covered in the owners manual in the set up instructions. It should have been done correctly at the factory but we all know how that goes. This is why some are centered and some are almost touching the left kerf plate. Next chance I get I'll change it.

I've been doing some searching on this subject and basically there were a couple of comments made about the bearings being on one slide is what's causing the problem. Even the type 20 updated version still shows only one slide with a bearing and different part number. The saw apparently only has bearings on the right hand tube. When you lower the head it torgues the crap out of the slides making it difficult to slide. When you lower the blade and try to make a cut the motion is so jerky - the bearings are grabbing because they are being torqued off to one side.

I've been doing some research into this improved type 20 and according to the parts diagram very few parts are different than the type 1. It seems it's mainly one slide rail. I'm going to contact a DeWalt Technician and find out if the type 1 can be updated with the type 20 parts. I would guess that it could, It would be nice if DeWalt at least sold the parts as a upgrade kit seeing how they aren't going to recall any of the type 1. During some searching I came across reviews about the slide on the DWS780, (The linear bearings on the slide. Mine was nearly impossible to make a slide cut with the blade down in the cut position. When I first used it almost every cut I made was a chop (casing some windows, crown on some cabinets). Then I got into a set of stairs where I was cutting, or trying to cut, skirt boards. Holy crap. I thought something was wrong with my blade but when I made the cutting motion with no material on the saw it was the same deal. The saw apparently only has bearings on the right hand tube (I have read this). When you lower the head it torgues the crap out of the slides making it difficult to slide.) Another one, (When you lower the blade and try to cut skirt boards, the motion is so jerky - the bearings are grabbing because they are being torqued off to one side. The light is great, but the saw is just unusable because of the linear slide bearing on one side. In fact I would go so far as to say it is dangerous.) This certainly makes sense because the parts illustration shows one slide having a different part number and different in appearance. These are the differences between type 1 and type 20 Type 1 170 N395710 LINEAR BEARING KIT 170 N084698SV SUPPORT HOUSING Type 20 332 N104494 Rail 170 N157708 SUPPORT HOUSING If the saw isn't operating correctly because of a design flaw why wouldn't this be a warrantee issue if it's still under warrantee? Would they replace the parts with the same part numbers or would they use the newer updated parts so that the problem is corrected?

I totally agree with you. Moving the upper motor support frame left or right should not effect the parallel trueness to the rails. In other words it will not change the alignment of the blade in relation to the rails. 90 deg. cuts will remain the same. All that should happen is the blade will move between the kerf plates by sliding on the horizontal shaft and remain 90 deg to the table assuming the blade is already set up properly.

Ok I said I would take a closer look and I've finally got around to it. I've been busy right up till dark and by the time I'm showered and sit down its been around 9:30-10:00 every night. I would rather be looking this saw over in natural daylight then in a dark basement with artificial light but right now I don't have a choice, I attached some pictures to show the area that I want to mention. The slide assembly is a two piece design with the saw being attached to the upper bracket and the bottom bracket is attached to the slide rails. The two brackets are assembled on a common shaft with a torsion spring that sits between the two sections over the shaft. The upper bracket that's attached to the saw has two set screws on the back that lock it to the shaft. This is the only adjustment I can see at the moment. It looks like mine is more to the right than the left. If I was to move it to the left it would give more clearance between the blade and left kerf plate. The saw blade is 90 degrees to the table so the adjustment has to be a horizontal adjustment so that it doesn't effect the 90 degrees. It doesn't look like even by moving it to the left will be enough to center the blade but I haven't tried it either. The torsion spring is nothing you want to mess with. One end pushes up against the bottom of the saw and the other end pushes down against the slide base. It's under a great deal of pressure so that it holds the saw in the up position. It looks like this is the area that affects the blade placement. Right now mine is slightly to the right and not perfectly centered. The ends of the upper bracket appear to have a beveled outer edge so that it can clear the bottom bracket if it is moved toward either side. From what I can tell this adjustment would effect nothing other than were the blade is positioned between the kerf plates. The only other possibility would be the way the motor is attached to the upper bracket. If there is room for any movement so that the motor can be adjusted to the right which would also give more clearance between the left kerf plate. I cannot see good enough in a dark basement with the light if this can be done. I'm curious enough about it so I'll be checking this out when ever I can find the time to haul it outside were I can see things better. I have no idea why the second picture is turned sideways. I tried uploading them twice and each time it turns the second photo. It even changed the order of the way they were uploaded. I took all the photos the same.

Guys like me who bought the type 1 DWS780 have a good reason to be mad as hell. We are the ones that complained about it and now we're stuck with it. We can't just go out and keep buying the newest updated tool that comes out every time they decide to make a change. My problem with DeWalt is when they design a new tool they don't field test it long enough to find out from professionals if there's anything that needs to to be changed before it's released to the public for retail. This isn't the first saw DeWalt ever made, you would think they would know by now how to do it right the first time. The Lowe's Kolbalt 12" dual bevel sliding miter saw puts DeWalts DWS780 to shame when it comes to smoothness. DeWalt's to much in a hurry to make money and they flood the market with it and in the mean time are redesigning an updated version. If I could tell the first time I ever operated a slide saw that it didn't feel as smooth as it should how the hell could something like this get by their design and quality control team. Every type 1 DWS780 saw uses the same parts so everyone of them is going to feel about the same. What do they have one person testing them or do they even test them? What they should do is update anyone's saw that's not happy with it. I'm sure it doesn't bother everyone who owns one. One thing I've finally realized, when a deal seems to good to be true then I better think twice about it. Every time Home Depot or Lowe's has a special deal there's a reason for it. It's usually because they not going to carry it anymore or it's being replaced with a different model and their trying to get rid of their old style inventory This has happened with just about every so called good deal I ever got from these places. The saw was a promotional special with a free stand. Somebody higher up knew all about the change I can guarantee it. It happened with the Verander decking we bought, they stopped carrying it right after we bought it on sale. So we had to special order extra boards from the manufacture and got slammed with a huge price hike. It happened with the Ducane gas Grill, Arians snow blower, DeWalt 12v drill.etc. the next thing will be a fix for the loose battery fit on the 20V Brushless drill. Aaaaaarrrgh!!!!!

What exactly is different with the slides? Does it operate smoother? More stable with less flex? Why did they redesign the slides so soon after this saw was released for retail? It's relatively a new product considering how long it's been available.

I've read through the set up instructions and it only covers how to set up the 45 stops. No mention how to correct and make adjustments if your blade doesn't clear the left kerf plate. It does mention kerf plate adjustment but that doesn't help when it's already as far to the left as possible, I didn't remember reading anything about this before and it's because there was nothing in the instruction related to it. I'm going to look the saw over real close to see if I can spot anything that might contribute to this problem. There has to be a reason some clear and some don't. Here's the manual. http://documents.dewalt.com/documents/English/Instruction%20Manual/N112900,DWS780%20E.pdf

The question now is why are some just catching on the edge? I don't remember seeing anything in the owners manual related to to an adjustment if your saw had this issue. I don't really see how you could adjust it even if you wanted to, if you moved it any ,it would throughout out somewhere else. I'm going to go through the set up instructions again to see if I can find anything on this.

Did you ever check to see if the blade made contact with the kerf plate before the first time you ever made a bevel 45 cut? The reason I'm asking is once the first time a cut is made the blade will never come in contact with the kerf plate because it would self clearance itself without you even knowing it. The blade barely catches the edge of the kerf plate. If you apply very little down pressure to the handle as your making the cut, there's a slight flexing, enough that the blade will miss just the kerf plate. I bet most people have a tendency to pull down on the handle harder than the realize when operating the saw and it never touches. If you move the saw through the motion of making a bevel 45 cut without pulling down on the handle does it hit? In other words, move the blade forward the table at that angle without pulling down on the handle, push it from the top going at the same angle as the blade is traveling.

Have you actually ever cut a piece of wood with the saw beveled at 45 degrees or are you just setting it up to check to see if it will hit if you ever tried it because of this topic?

I'm the one that made the comment about the blade cutting the kerf plate. Don't take this the wrong way and try to understand what I'm saying. Your blade, no doubt is slightly touching the edge of the left plate when you bevel it to the right at 45 degrees. If you start the saw and run the blade down slow the saw teeth will create the required clearance by shaving off ever so slightly that little bit of material that is coming in contact with the blade teeth. As you know, the only reason it's hitting in the first place is because the blade doesn't have as much clearance on the left as it does on the right. If the blade was centered with equal space on both sides of the blade it may just clear both plates when beveled to either side. I really don't know why DeWalt designed it this way and I don't think the explanation I got from DeWalt is correct but it is what it is. Plastic is a very soft material compared to wood. If you had cut a piece of wood at 45 degrees to the right and hadn't noticed that the blade made contact with the plate before you used the saw, you won't have noticed that the blade shaved the plastic as it cut through the wood. It wouldn't have done any damage to the saw blade or saw. But because you noticed this prior to cutting the 45 your reluctant to do it because you believe it's not the right way to solve the problem. DeWalt wouldn't design it so that the user has to cut it to fit, right. Some kerf plates were made in a one piece design, they were plastic like the old Delta saw I had. You created the slot once the saw was set up properly by cutting through the plastic kerf plate. This method gave you the tightest clearance to the blade possible. Some saws have adjustable kerf plates. There are kerf plates available called zero clearance made specifically for clean 90 degree cuts without any tear out. But you really cannot bevel the blade with these plates because they are so close to the blade. Anyway getting back to the issue, if you don't want the blade to remove that little bit of material on the left kerf plate because you think it might ruin the saw or blade you better hope you never need to bevel cut a 45 to the right because there is no other way to over come this from what I can see. I'm sure everyone who ever used this saw did this without even realizing that the blade hit the kerf plate. Every DWS780 I've looked at has the same clearance as yours. I bet if you used a non carbide tip blade it would just clear it. It was probably designed with a regular blade installed and no one ever gave any thought to whether it would clear a carbide blade. Seems I find fault with everything I buy. I'm always wondering why they designed something they way they did because it's not aways the best design. I modify just about everything and make it perform much better than original. DeWalt is no different than most companies. They manufacture a quality product for the most part the least expensive way possible and have it perform within specs and make as much profit as possible. Yes, I've found fault with DeWalt tools also. It's a fault I have but at the same time a gift. I wish I could have had a career improving on manufacturing designs, I would have enjoyed the challenge.

I think you should listen to the DeWalt rep. After all if he works for the company that makes your saw so he must know everything there is to know about it along with your issue. If I could only count the times I've talked to people about issues that all worked for the same manufacture and received a different answer from everyone of them. I think you miss understood what I was trying to explain, maybe it's my fault the way I worded it but I'm tired and I really don't feel like arguing about it, you do what you think is right. I'm just relaying the answer that DeWalt gave me explaining the reason for the offset blade. This came from their technical support dept. so who knows if they know what they are talking about. I know that my DWS780 has the same clearance and it cuts just fine so I don't consider it to be a problem and their explanation seemed reasonable enough. If your blade is set up correctly to the fence the saw will cut the correct degree angle as long as the material is parallel to the fence. The kerf plates are there to support the material that is being cut and to help reduce tear out. Sure if the blade was out of alignment you would notice a gap difference between the blade and the plate but that's not reason they are there.

The Kerf plates are plastic. So the saw blade would shave what ever is needed to be removed and doing this won't hurt the blade. When I bought my first miter saw which was a 10" Delta, it didn't have a slot for the blade in the Kerf plate. Once the saw was set up 90 degrees to the table you start the saw and cut the slit in the plastic, same for 45's, it's that simple. If they were steel that would be a problem but that's why they are plastic. This will give you the tightest clearance between the Kerf plates and blade that's possible at all angles.

There's nothing wrong with the saw. I posted the same topic over a year ago after I noticed mine. I ended up contacting DeWalt about this and they responded right away. If memory serves me right it had to do with being offset to accommodate the blade arbor adapter and was completely normal and part of the design. I posted this on the forum so everyone would know but at the time it was the DeWalt Owners Group not Tools in Action and apparently that topic is no longer in the archives. Mr Yellow might remember this because he posted pictures of his saw to show it looked the same as mine but hadn't noticed it till I had brought the subject up.

Sounds normal to me?

Home Depot display tools have always had a special bracket fastened to the battery and tool to prevent the battery from being removed. The screw gun must have been used for demo purposes because there was a 2x4 with holes and the battery was dead. It was not protected and I was able to remove and installed the battery. First time I've ever done that at H.D. That's an $89. battery at H.D., wonder how long till someone tries to walk out with it.

Had to make a stop at Home Depot last night so I checked out the 20V dry wall screw gun on display. No rubber bumper for the battery on this one but the battery was snug with no movement. Didn't the dry wall screw gun come out after the Multitool? Why have it on one but not the other if it's a design change to correct the loose battery problem. This makes no sense, I don't get it.

Has anyone noticed that the Multitool has a rubber bumper inserted into the middle of the tool base in the area were the battery latch makes contact. Wonder why they decided to add this feature. Wonder if the new dry wall gun has this feature also? Do you think this has anything to do with loose fitting batteries?

If you own one and have used one what do you think about this drill. I've always wanted one but always managed to come up with a way to get into those tight spots and get the job done without one. Well I have one now but honestly I'm not impressed with the way this drill feels in the hand. The hand grip feels nothing like the new ergonomic designed 20V tools. It's way to wide in the hand grip and lower trigger area. I've recently picked up the 12V drill and impact driver kit, 20V Brushless Compact drill and Impact Driver kit and the Oscilating Multi Tool kit and they all feel about the same when you grab them. This right angle drill feels nothing like the other tools. It is not ergonomically designed IMO. DeWALT blew it on this tool. I'm honestly thinking about returning it for that reason alone. Probably regret it next time I need one but for what this cost it should look and feel like the rest of the new designed tools. The rest of the features are really good. Maybe I'll change my mind seeing how it's only an occasionally used tool but I honestly don't like holding it. I think DeWALT should come out with a Brushless version and redesign it like the rest, I'd buy it for sure.

I tried it again tonight and the LED light came on 3 times for a split second each time only when I rubbed the plastic bag against the body of the tool after I ran it and the LED went off. Somehow the plastic bag and dry air is helping the bag to create a static charge within the tool body and is causing the LED to light momentarily. It won't light on its own unless I rub it with the plastic bag. I don't have any other explanation. This is the weirdest thing I ever heard of. I know LED's take very little power to make them light.

It's all your fault, you guys talked me into it, Yup I bought the multi tool kit. Put the battery in it last night, unlocked it, pulled the trigger and it started right up. Forward and reverse work with variable speed trigger. LED came on for 20 seconds then went out. Tried the attachments they fit perfect. Everything works like its suppose to. Locked the trigger and slid it back into the plastic bag that it came in. The LED light came on for about a second inside the bag while I was holding the grip. I pulled the tool out of the bag and checked the trigger, it was locked, shook it, turned it upside down, wiggled the battery, no LED light came on. Slid it back into the plastic bag and the LED light came back on for a second again. Wiggled the tool inside the bag and the LED light came on for a second several more times and blinded me the last time because I had it facing up. Took it out of the case today and went through the same routine as last night. Put it in the bag to show the wife and it wouldn't do it. She thinks I'm nuts and my only witness is the cat. WTH?

This is exactly why I was using cut pieces of electrical tape to help determine the problem area because they can be placed and removed easily without leaving any residue. I have some rubber the same thickness as the electrical tape that I'm thinking about applying perminately with contact cement. The batteries slid on and off smoothly and had no movement with the tape in the area were the battery latch makes contact with the drill base. I'm only talking about a very thin small piece the size of the battery latch.

There's only two possibilities, If both batteries are loose than chances are the problem is with the base of the drill or you have two batteries that are off like the one that I have. Here's something worth mentioning. When the drill is assembled the two clam shell halves do not line up on a lot of new drills I've looked at including my new one. The seam is tight but the area that surrounds the LED light is off. One side is higher than the other. You can see and feel it, I don't know if they are put together with self taping screws but my guess this would be something that would cause this if the person wasn't careful aligning it before running the screws in. If the screw holes were made while the pieces were molded than they would all line up or all be off.

I can relate. I just bought the brushless DCK281D2 combo kit and have the same issue on the drill. Swaped the batteries around and found that one out of the 3 batteries fit looser on the drill then the other two and I could feel it moving around whenever I moved the drill in different positions. Very annoying. The problem area is right were the little latch in the middle of the battery catches the lip on the bottom of the drill. I cut little pieces of electrical tape and placed them at various places on the battery and tried the fit. I ended up with tape on the lip under the drill and that tightened the battery right up. The drill has a little more slop than the impact driver so the problem is with both the drill and that one battery. I'm betting there's quit a few like this. Do both batteries move around about the same in the drill?