dwain

A few times in recent months I have heard the opinion that larger batteries can actually give more power, no just longer runtime. It came up again in Javier's excellent video putting the new Bosch Hybrid Impact against the FUEL impact: http://professional-power-tool-guide.com/power-tool-forum/index.php?/topic/3851-bosch-vs-milwaukee-brushless-18v-impact-speed-challenge/ Being a skeptic of this, I decided to do some testing myself. I have a new respect for anyone who makes a decent video with a fairly scientific approach to testing, it is much harder than it looks. I just took some photos. Here's a couple of setup photos: Everything was done in 4x4 rough cut treated pine (very soft). Screws were timed going in, not backing out. The 25mm auger bit tests were in and out. The batteries were always on 2 or 3 bars charge. DCF886 Impact Driver driving 3 No. 8mm x 90mm lag screws. I did this test twice (one at the end of other tests since it was so different). Both batteries actually sheared the third screw at the same depth! Very uncanny. It didn't happen in the second run, which took much longer on the 2.0Ah for some reason... 2.0Ah - 59.7 secs & 99 secs 4.0Ah - 46.7 secs & 49 secs DCD790 Compact Drill driving 3 No. 8mm x 50mm lag screws. The drill cut out every time as the head of the lag hit the washer. 2.0 Ah - 15.0 secs 4.0Ah - 15.3 secs DCD985 Premium Drill drilling 4 No. Holes with 25mm auger bit. On both batteries I had to switch from 2nd gear to 1st gear on the third hole. 2.0Ah - 43.4 secs 4.0Ah - 44.5 secs The results surprised me immensely! There was a clear power difference in the hand when using the impact driver with 4Ah batteries, but no difference with the drills (as reflected in the results). All scenarios were a big test for the tools. I would have guessed that the impact would be the least affected by battery size, but the results clearly disagreed. The testing was not perfect, but I am definitely convinced of using larger batteries in an impact driver for large screws. It would be harder to measure, but an angle grinder and/or circular saw test would be interesting.

Haha. Truth be told, I voted Milwuakee in the viewers choice award I have half Dewalt 20v and half Bosch 18V, but am jealous of Milwaukee FUEL grinder/circ/sawzall. But in this Drill/Impact/Recip comparison, I think yellow is the clear value winner But as I said in my first post, if you're a plumber/electrician or anyone else who would benefit from Milwaukee's specialist tools / bigger line-up, its the obvious choice. EDIT: oh, and I was never in the Dewalt Owners Group. I'm a TIA man through and through.

price is a good point to make. the brushless options from Milwaukee are excellent tools, but have a price to match. Dewalt seems to be generally a little cheaper. but unless its the (expensive) FUEL version, you have to say, "hey, hand me that average sawzall"

I'm assuming the Dewalt kit includes the recent heavy-duty DCD995. If I were a plumber/electrician, Milwaukee is the easy/obvious choice. For others, I'd choose the Dewalt (just), with the following summary: Drills - both awesome, but Dewalt has longer runtime. Dewalt probably best for timber, Milwaukee probably better in hammer mode. Impacts - both awesome, VERY similar runtime, power goes to the Milwaukee (just), as does the 3 speed. Dewalt has the 3 LED lights (very handy). Recips - FUEL >> Dewalt >> M18. Dewalt won the 2012 award, its an excellent tool. Milwaukees brushed M18 was apparently a bit of a letdown. The Dewalt tool lights stay on for 20 seconds after you let go of the trigger, and its actually super handy. Turns every tool into a torch already in your hand. And of course, the Dewalt is cheaper (great prices!).

Hi Mike. I've heard this theory before but have never seen any proof (mathematical or empirical). Can you provide any? I suppose many of us could compare certain activities (i.e. lag bolts with impact driver) with different size batteries (on the same skin) and time it.... maybe i will.

it was the same story with the previous (brushed) hybrid. I loved the idea, but was disappointed that my dewalt smoked it with lag screws. especially since Bosch have high torque claims and have liked to talk about the 'torque losses' associated with use of an adapter.

Thanks Javier, results as expected for me. Its a little disappointing that the first impact drivers to have a socket anvil is easily beaten in the types of application which would use one, but oh well. still a great little tool.

believe me, if i can, so can you. im just a hack who took my time, like, a lot of time!

wow! I always had the impression that the Dewalt didn't come off too well in comparison to the Milwaukee and Bosch circs (despite loving mine). I've sometimes considered trying to swap my Dewalt for a Bosch, but not anymore especially considering the price of the 20v is, go Dewalt!

yep i only kept the 12v Max line cause i've got options in other (18v) platforms, and because i've convinced myself its part of my dewalt line (only have 1 dewalt charger). but if it was to be your 'go to' tools, especially as a tradesman, you'd be crazy to pick dewalt 12v over bosch, makita and especially milwaukee. re: the 20v brushless drill being shorter, i can confirm that. the 12v is still much lighter, and its flatpack battery is much smaller, but the brushless 20v is just waaaay better.

ive got Bosch and Dewalt 18/20v platforms plus dewalt 12v. id love to have M12 instead, but i like the drill and screwdriver i've got and have no reason to change. nothing wrong with multiple platforms to me ...

thanks for all the info! will come in handy ..

awww, you guys are very nice, glad you can't see all the imperfections

thanks everyone! i don't think you'd buy it if i charged more than $1/hr for my labour ...

For those who had read/commented on my first build thread, you'll know i started building a chair to go with her loft bed and desk - http://professional-power-tool-guide.com/power-tool-forum/index.php?/topic/2189-daughters-loft-bed/ Well, I'm 99% done with the chair! I think I must have honestly spent 25+ hours on this thing! Mostly because I have never done mortice & tenon, dowelling or pocket screwing before this chair. If I had known it would take this long, I might have done it out of hardwood, but since I always planned to paint it to match her bed, I was happy with pine. I really want to convince my daughter to just let me stain it, but its hard to argue with a 5 year old ... So its been a great learning experience! I'm feeling really proud of it at the moment, its actually more comfortable than our dining chairs! It should last her a long time. Thanks for all the encouragement!

im always torn between trying to keep them looking new and hanging out to give em a big challenge...

the Bosch HT Wrench is also VERY powerful.

i had a little play with one this week, seemed a very nice tool to me. tonnes of power with a cut depth up to 2mm....

its really not much more than the FUEL circ saw right? considering the power you get, doesn't seem fair to criticise its cost that much, especially for those who are already on the platform with plenty of batts ... seems pretty innovative to allow 18V users a 36V 7-1/4" circ saw ...

yep, i just got the Dewalt 12V max screwdriver, and its somewhere around 1000rpm. Really handy for indoor and fine work. The 20V impact driver and 12V drill are going to get a lot less work now .... Recommend the tool type...

Fantastic videos Javier! I've been looking forward to seeing reviews of the new Bosch brushless stuff. I've messed around with the brushed version of these and LOVE the drill and liked the Impact Driver. Do you have any other impact drivers (i.e. dewalt or milwaukee) to test again in high load application? My only slight disappointment of the first hybrid was the power (compared to my dewalt).

and i thought owning 5 drills was bad (i'm back to 3 now). you guys are nuts!

hehe. i only mentioned being an engineer to illustrate that a basic knowledge of physics didn't make the previous point clear. designing pipelines etc doesn't help me with this at all if the anvil was the actual load, your point would be very valid . however the force required to make the anvil rotate is insignificant compared to the force required to drive the socket/screw etc. interestingly, if you had two anvils that weighed the same and had the same centre of gravity (the actual difference would be insignificant) but had different size, they would rotate with the same RPM at no load. That is, the outside velocity of the bigger anvil would be higher, but the RPM would be identical. As Dewalt have stated it, both 3/8" and 1/2" 20v compact wrench models have the same RPM (2300). this is all a long way of saying that, IMHO, the motor would determine the torque, and the size of the anvil should have no impact (no pun intended).

but the anvils only deliver the torque, they don't generate it. if they receive the same torque from the motor, the 1/2" anvil will have less force with a longer lever arm. the 3/8" will have greater force on a shorter lever arm, but the net torque (force x distance) should be the same, because they anvils don't generate the torque ... does this make sense to anyone else? I could be completely wrong...

i'd probably put this guys recommendations to good use: http://toolguyd.com/if-i-lost-all-my-tools-which-brands-would-i-pick-for-replacements/