fm2176

From the LSA paper that came with my belt sander: "This unprecedented protection covers all defects in workmanship or materials amd normal wear items for the lifetime of the original, registered tool owner." This include batteries purchased as part of kits, which essentially makes a Ridgid combo kit a one-time investment to some.

Here's my take on Lowe's... I don't know if they still do or not (this practice may have stopped once FlexVolt was released) but not too long ago they advertised themselves as having the largest selection of DeWalt power tools available. They do carry a lot of 20v Max stuff, with larger stores carrying things I've not seen at Home Depot such as the fan and certain lights. When it comes to other brands, Lowe's carries a fair amount of Hitachi, most of the relatively small lines of Porter Cable and Kobalt, and a handful of Bosch power tools. The reason that DeWalt products don't dominate Lowe's shelves outside of the power tool section is plain and simple--retailer agreements. If you look, Stanley Black & Decker brands comprise the bulk of Lowe's shelf space, with the notable exception of DeWalt, whose hand tools are carried by Home Depot. Both stores get Fatmax and a few other products, but Lowe's gets Bostitch, Lenox, Irwin, more Stanley and Black and Decker tools, and soon enough, Craftsman. Home Depot has no room for more competiting products, carrying not only DeWalt but also brands owned by Milwaukee as well as Bessey clamps. I'm basing this on my own observation, but it seems like SBD holds a majority of shelf space at Lowe's while reserving its premium tiered brand (DeWalt) for the store it lacks dominance in (barring some accessories like blades and bits). This could also be why Lowe's gets a seasonal FatMax T-Stak combo instead of the ToughSystem. As for FlexVolt, I recall early reports that Home Depot had an exclusivity agreement for the first year, but that has long passed and Lowe's still carries nothing beyond FlexVolt. The decision to sell different products at each chain is evidenced by Lowe's shift away from 20v Max OPE just before Home Depot began selling it. I bought my first two OPE tools on clearance, noticing them at HD shortly after. Now Lowe's sells 40v Max while HD sells 20v Max, with no overlap in stores (online may be a different matter, I rarely shop online). To close for now, I don't think that Lowe's necessarily carries fewer tools per se; anyone can get the basic tools they need at either store so long as they are not picky as to brand or voltage. I do think that Home Depot has the better selection for the pro and the serious consumer, while Lowe's tool section is lackluster and drab at best these days. Maybe it's just the colors, though. Home Depot has a bright orange sign with a colorful tool section consisting of a lot of green, orange, red, and yellow, while Lowe's has a more drab blue sign with the same color dominating the tool section (Kobalt, Bosch, Irwin).

I did find the last (that I know of) DeWalt tape measure combo at my local store shortly after posting about it. The displays were long gone, as were the combos, but something told me to check the aisle, and sure enough someone had left one there. It was still regular price, but a good deal nonetheless. I just need to avoid throwing this one. It's still early in the year, and I think the discounts don't really hit until February, and then only at a small number of stores, but all of my local home improvement stores have put away the holiday promos without any real hint of future clearance events (outside of a few cordless combos that are maybe 25% off).

Here's my suggestion, take it for what it's worth. I'd gift the Black and Decker drill to someone who can use it. Then I'd sell either the DeWalt 18v or the Bosch* stuff (if it were me, the Bosch would likely go). If I sold the Bosch, I'd buy the DeWalt DCB1820 adapter and limit future purchases to DeWalt 20v Max for mostly home and limited use at work, and Milwaukee for primary work use. Getting the adapter will allow you to use 20v max batteries in the ni-cad tools, replacing worn out or broken tools as needed with their newer counterparts. As for the 8v Max gyro screwdriver, I'd keep it for small jobs; I have two of them and they are great for replacing power outlets and lights. Personally, I'm in a similar boat, with a bunch of different battery platforms. I plan to keep most of them but reserve them for various uses. For example, my Bosch 12v drill will probably stay in the truck and may eventually be supplemented by an impact driver. My DeWalt, Milwaukee, and Ridgid tools are stored according to use, e.g. the Ridgid sanders and router along with the DeWalt jigsaw reside in a box set aside for small woodworking projects. My Hitachi 18v impact driver may be sold, or it may stay in the truck until and if I get the Bosch 12v. *Makita, not Bosch, sorry for the error.

Unfortunately, I doubt that Fiat Chrysler will ever make a Jeep with the charm and rugged utility of the M-series or even the simple off-road capability and versatility of the CJ series. I'm biased, of course, but modern safety standards (not to mention convenience and luxury option necessary to enhance sales) make today's Jeeps little if any more practical than most other 4wd vehicles for off road use. Military use is improbable at best--they simply wouldn't hold up to what I've put HMMWVs and even LMTVs through. Even so, it's nice that modern Jeep Wranglers at least maintain the basic appearance of their predecessors.

I was thinking of the 1980s era Hondas and I confirmed it before posting about it: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/1986_Honda_Civic.shtml EPA combined estimate of 46 mpg for an '86 Civic? That matches the 2018 Prius c according to the above site. The regular Prius is rated at 56 mpg, though.

Maple tree

I'm not a Milwaukee tool fanboy, but I am a Milwaukee Fuel snob (meaning the only red tools I own are Fuel models). As such, I'm not the best suited to answer this, but unless you want the features of the Gen 2 (smaller and with slightly higher specs?), I'd save the $30 and get the free $99 stapler.

Remember when... ..."$5 on pump 1" was a common thing to say at the gas station? ...we tuned up our cars with PCV valves, rotors and distributor caps, plugs and wires (or if you go way back, by filing the points in the cap)? ...(most) celebrities didn't consider themselves any more worthy of commenting on political, social, or economic topics than the average citizen? ...most of us considered cordless tools to be big drills, smaller drills, and maybe hammer drills, but little or nothing else? ...people greeted each other and were aware of their surroundings instead of having their head perpetually buried in a smart phone?

Welcome! Which branch were you in?

I did not intend for this thread to focus on the "Made in ___" aspect, but COO is one of the things that get brand enthusiasts worked up over nothing. Here's my take: Made/Assembled in USA (or insert other country here) with Global Components: it's a start, or perhaps better described a restart, since most domestic brands originally produced their goods in the US before sending manufacturing offshore. I agree that some companies focus too much on the marketing aspect, deceiving consumers with a bunch of hype that obscures the fact that relatively little assembly or manufacture is done here. As I stated above, I'm biased as to what I wear in uniform, but my tool preferences differ somewhat. I own a bunch of yellow, red, and orange tools made in Asia, it is probably impossible to complete a cordless tool lineup without having "Made in China" on the side of many tools. Similarly, a lot of my drive accessories are also made in China. Saw blades are another matter, however; I find myself preferring Freud's Swiss and Italian made blades over both US and Asian varieties. It is hard to delve too deep into this subject without bringing up politics and other taboo topics I rarely discuss even in private conversation, but suffice to say that we should be proud to be Americans (or Irish, Aussie, Chinese, Kurdish, Egyptian, or whatever floats your boat). Companies manipulate this innate desire to display our pride, whether that display is an American flag sticker (made in China) on our truck, a MANUFACTURED IN USA with global components blurb on our new drill, or a beer commercial that shows how American getting intoxicated is (yes, I'm still not drinking, so call me bitter...). In a way, this commercialism is like pop country music--its infectious to many (I stick to Willie's Roadhouse or Outlaw Country on SiriusXM if I want to hear country music) but ultimately it undermines the company's (or music genre's) roots. "I'm gonna grab that DeWalt drill, drive my Chevy up the hill, jump on my John Deere to fix her heart, 'cause that's what a good man does, in the USA. Woo! Product placement!". Okay, I've been up too long... Lack of Innovation and Quality: I feel like tool technology has grown leaps and bounds beyond what it was even twenty years ago. Such trivial things as ergonomics and reduced slippage used to be limited to brands like Snap-On, but now most brands offer quality tools, with US manufacturers falling to the wayside to a degree. I think that the utilitarian approach taken by a company like Channellock, for instance, is what that company must do to survive. I could very well be wrong, but I don't see Channellock competing with Knipex. Instead, they make simple and effective tools that lack the refinement of the German brand, but which have their own advantages. The only Knipex tool I currently own is a pliers wrench. It is great, but adjusting it to the perfect position isn't as easy for me as my 415s. Also, if I lose or break my Channellock pliers, I'm out at most $25 (for the 460s), versus over $50. Hence, I abuse my blue handled tools at times, using them to break locks, pry things open, and even beat stuff into submission. So, back to the broader topic. Brand loyalty is by no means bad, but I feel that sometimes loyalists simply close their minds to hearing anything besides the party line. I had my own motivation to stay loyal to DeWalt after I started buying their tools: for a casual DIY'er like me the tools are expensive investments and I didn't see the need to buy other expensive brands like Milwaukee. Deals popped up, I started filling in the holes with M18 Fuel tools, and more recently I've started filling in other holes with Ridgid tools. So, two years after really jumping on the yellow bandwagon I have a fair amount of red and orange mixed in. My experience tells me that brand loyalty is often not good, but my bank account tells me that Ryobi would have been the absolute best brand for me to have invested in. Oh well, it's too late now.

gun powder

slide rule

I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to preferring domestically produced goods when possible. The key phrase, though, is "when possible", and unlike some undyingly loyal brand enthusiasts I try to avoid being hypocritical by ignoring the fact that almost every company outsources to some extent these days. As ChrisK states, if I were a citizen of another country I'd probably try t o support that country's workers before Americans. It can be considered simply as patriotism or as complexly as anti-internationalism, but I think that most of us have more primal motivations for wanting to support men and women we identify with. A case in point is with my footwear. I wear a pair of DeWalt Wrench industrial safety shoes daily; they're comfortable and I got them for cheap from Sears (I bought the last two pairs after wearing the first for a week). Those are made in China, but the COO does not affect their functionality or quality. As a Soldier, though, I strive to stick to domestically manufactured footwear. I just don't feel right mixing my country's uniform with an American flag on the right sleeve with a pair of Chinese Garmonts or any of the other popular footwear that most Soldiers splurge on. Bellevilles and Danners hold up better, are comfortable, and are made in the country I have sworn to protect and defend. Similarly, I stick to New Balance 990s for physical fitness events. They cost more than twice as much as New Balance's offshore shoes, and about 50% more than the made in US with Global Materials, but they are mostly of US origin and worth it to me. I think that being fiercely loyal to any given brand only helps to set a person up for rampant disappointment eventually. If we see only the positive attributes of our favorite brand while failing to acknowledge the negative ones, we are more prone to going on the defensive instead of accepting that our logic is flawed. When that defense eventually fails to prove fruitful, we realize that we were wrong all along and that every brand has its strengths, weaknesses, and lemons.

I picked up the Sheffield-made Walt chisels yesterday and can't wait to try them out.

Before I begin, let me recognize the fact that many of us here and on similar forums are somewhat receptive to owning tools from different brands, being capable of recognizing that the "best" isn't always proprietary to a favored tool brand. Also, though this thread will naturally concern tools in general and power tools in particular, a representative example of how close-minded some people are can be had in the endless debates on which truck brand is best. Ford guys stick to Ford, GM to GM, Dodge to Dodge (or Ram to Ram I guess nowadays), etc. So, how many of you have met someone so blinded by loyalty to a certain brand that they refuse to acknowledge that sometimes that brand comes up short? Such consumers sometimes waste tons of money on products that receive poor reviews or that are inferior to offerings by competing brands (sometimes even at lower cost), yet become rabidly defensive when confronted with facts or differing opinions. In this thread I'll share my thoughts on a few of these types of individuals as well as their potential motivations for staying loyal to their preferred brand at all costs. First, a couple of valid (IMHO) reasons: 1) Wanting to restrict the number of cordless tool platforms: cordless tools take batteries which can be quite expensive and which usually require separate chargers between brands and/or voltages. Even if a tool company doesn't offer the absolute best tool for the job, necessity sometimes dictates that a slightly inferior tool is purchased for the sake of battery compatibility. For example, a company that runs M18 tools might not desire to buy DeWalt nailers, even though they seem to perform better than Milwaukee's current offerings, since doing so would incur additional costs to buy and maintain batteries for those. Another example might be considering whether or not to buy a FlexVolt circular saw when one already has 20v Max. Sure the FV battery can be used with existing 20v Max tools, but the reverse isn't true, making the jump into the new system pricey if only one tool is to be purchased. 2) Availability: the availability of tool brands is subject to a person's location. In some areas, one brand may be easy to obtain while another may be impossible to find locally. Add in factors such as authorized repair centers and other customer service aspects of ownerships and use, and the effect that a brand's availability has on loyalty is evident. While home improvement centers have made common tool brands readily available in most areas, they have also limited that same availability to an extent. Consider Home Depot's two proprietary brands, Ryobi and Ridgid. Both have a loyal customer base that swears by the tools, with the former appealing more toward novices with some definite professional use and the latter sometimes considered an underrated brand that competes with premium brands. Both are only available at Home Depot, however, limiting owners of said brands to shopping there in person or online. This has the opposite effect of limiting those brands' appeal to tool users who might otherwise be interested. As a Milwaukee owner, should I buy the fan that my local hardware store carries and have instant gratification? Or should I order a Ridgid version, wait for it to be shipped, and have to use the internet if I have any issues with it? I had the opportunity to expand into Metabo tools for cheap a couple of years ago, but passed on it as I knew that I'd be unable to find additional tools and accessories locally once the supply ran out. Now, on to some less logical reasons: 1) Country of origin (COO): let's face it, few tools, and fewer power tools are domestically manufactured anymore. Yet some people may point towards COO as a reason to only buy one brand while ignoring another. I have a large number of DeWalt tools and often point out that some are assembled in the US. I usually add the fact that some others are made in Mexico but most are of Chinese origin. Why? Because I'm misinforming people who are less familiar with tools if I imply that DeWalt produces all of their tools here in America. I've read comments around the internet from people slamming Milwaukee because of its parent company while praising DeWalt for supporting the local economy. Some people even confuse a brand's name with its COO; I'm sure some of you have met a person who though Milwaukee tools were made in Wisconsin. The same holds true for Bosch (German), Makita (Japan), and other brands whose names denote the country they were originally founded in. For better or worst, the majority of power tools are sourced from mainland Asia now, regardless of whether the name sounds American, German, Japanese, or Ethiopian. 2) Tenuous claims: most companies market their tools as being superior to other brands, often using data that is skewed to put them in the best light. Some people fall victim to this tactic, considering x brand to just be better than y brand because the packaging says so. Amusingly, these same people are quick to call foul when another brand claims to offer something "their" brand doesn't. Since I've mainly covered brands that most of us recognize as solid performers, I'll pick on the perennial whipping boy of tool retailers: Harbor Freight. Harbor Freight seems to rely a lot on having the best prices, often coupled with deep discounts making good deals absolute bargains. In turn, they gain a lot of loyal fans who stop there before even considering another retailer, since they just assume that no one can beat them. This tactic has doubtlessly led to decent sales on their newest cordless tools despite the fact that more tried offerings from the likes of DeWalt and Milwaukee can be had at little, if any, more cost. I can't name how many times I've heard someone lavishing praise on Harbor Freight while dismissing the very thought of paying a little more for a lot more quality. Deceptive ads comparing tools and accessories to name brands costing much more leads people to believe that they are getting more for their money. In some cases, yes. In many, no. 3) "'Cause I said so": this is akin to the truck brand argument touched upon in the opening paragraph. Some people just allow their experience and pigheadedness to make them oblivious to reality. I have owned DeWalt and have had no problems with their cordless tools. I also own Milwaukee (albeit much fewer tools) but have an issue with the trigger on an impact wrench. Should I sell my red tools and badmouth the brand as producing substandard garbage? Of course not. Should I place both my yellow and red tools on a pedestal and declare them vastly superior to all tools because they are mine? No, most major tool brands, even lesser tiered ones such as Porter Cable and Ryobi, offer exceptional value to customers, and no amount of he said, she said will change that. In other words, let our experiences enlighten us, but we should never refrain from trying out something different if we need to. 4) "It's the best, why buy less?": this can sometimes be justified by the want or need to restrict platforms, but if we find ourselves buying a $300 tool for a one-off project because it is red, when a green one can be had with battery and charger for half the price, we might be drinking too much Kool-Aid. This is the most subjective entry on this list as it really does depend on a number of variables, but it could be viewed as compromising versus not doing so. Brand loyalty sometimes finds us choosing a certain tool not because it is truly needed but because it is the best compromise (even if it is overkill) and it's offered in our favorite color. If I need to drill a few holes in masonry but lack a hammer drill, do I buy the M18 Fuel SDS-Plus, or consider the much less expensive Ryobi? If I'm going to use it more than once, maybe. If I'm not even certain I'll keep it afterward, why waste the money? Ultimately, we decide what is worth spending our hard earned money on. Brand loyalty can be advantageous to our bank accounts but it can also drain them. In a similar manner it can make us appear to be snobs, or worse fools, especially when two hardheaded people with different opinions start arguing over whose tools are better. I guess it's all part of the joy in having so many options available, though; maybe it's me who is the fool writing such a lengthy post about this.

Common law

armored car

Remember when... ...restaurants had smoking areas? ...cars didn't have airbags? ...video game systems were marketed by bits (8-bit, 16-bit, etc)? ...the national speed limit was 55 mph? ...movies relied on special effects and not CGI? ...cable gave us whopping 40 channels?

As Biggie stated, the 2731 with 9.0 battery is a great deal. Home Depots in my area had a hard time selling the leftover kits last year; I paid $225 for mine but the price ended up dropping to $180 a couple of months later.

True, I wrote about paying a premium for the empty ToughSystem boxes before finding that link. Someone in Europe might find that deal tempting, not to mention the fact that the box looks like a special edition.

Just picked up the Ridgid 18v belt sander, as well as four of the holiday promo Klein sets that include an 11-in-1 screwdriver and NCVT-1 voltage tester and a 4-pack of Bessey clamps. I think I'm set on 6" and 12" clamps...need to start getting more 24" and longer.

I agree that finding the right balance of quality versus cost would be nice. I think that for most of us, though, Milwaukee, DeWalt, and similarly tiered brands represent the best of what we can realistically expect to get. I'm not a professional, instead buying tools due to wants and having a little extra income, but even if I were I feel like my tool collection wouldn't be too dissimilar from what it currently looks like. I feel like Ryobi is a great brand for the same reasons of quality versus cost; a homeowner can expect to see good use out of a relatively inexpensive tools with somewhat few issues. I've tried becoming more objective over the years, and it's worked to some extent. Years ago I'd have cursed anything that failed to meet my expectations, so naturally I bought a pair of Belleville 590 combat boots a few years ago after having a pair for ten years with no issues. A few months ago the newer boots cracked all the way through the sole. I'm buying another pair regardless, but if it happens again, Belleville will hear from me!

I hate to sound cynical, but I feel like our loyalty to pretty much any brand in today's world is based more on personal experience and less on the manufacturer's commitment to making the best quality tools. At some point, quality is compromised to meet a price point while generating a healthy profit, so I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar happen to any brand's drill. This holds true for almost every consumer good nowadays. My neighbor had bad experiences with GM trucks so he switched to Ford and hasn't had any major issues. I've had my GMC for over ten years and have almost a quarter of a million miles on it with no major issues.

I have a few of the MaxFit sets and might have a FlexTorq somewhere, but this is good news regardless of my experience with them. I think that any revamp of power tool accessories is usually a win, as opposed to some refinements made to tools themselves, which might include cost-cutting measures.