Hugh Jass Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Although it's known the 9ah would be coming down the pipeline sometime in the future, I ran across a popular mechanics article that had pictures of it which I hadn't either seen or spotted before. Appears to be only slightly taller, pretty impressive given it has 50% more spunk. Thought the color differences were interesting, easy to spot...but what catches my eye is that there appears to be a raised portion over the 0AH portion of 9.0AH, as though it's a sticker or something. I find that quite odd since they're otherwise identical. Ideas? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 I think the size difference might just be the perspective. From what I've read the only difference is the color on top and the cells inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, Bremon said: I think the size difference might just be the perspective. From what I've read the only difference is the color on top and the cells inside. Perhaps, I just thought it might be taller since the 6ah is closer to the camera yet the 9 still appears taller. Should be the other way around if the same, could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousJoe Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 It's a tiny door, it's where the gremlins get in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 It's also longer. Look at the front where the battery release button is located. The 6.0 almost stops right at that button whereas he 9.0 extends a bit further out. It's kinda similar to the way Milwaukee did it. It makes sense they'd be similar because the top connector and release mechanism area have to be compatible with tools using smaller packs. The designers also try to minimize the visual impact and make them look as small as possible but adding another row of cells has to cost a bit in the size department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, JerryNY said: It's also longer. Look at the front where the battery release button is located. The 6.0 almost stops right at that button whereas he 9.0 extends a bit further out. It's kinda similar to the way Milwaukee did it. It makes sense they'd be similar because the top connector and release mechanism area have to be compatible with tools using smaller packs. The designers also try to minimize the visual impact and make them look as small as possible but adding another row of cells has to cost a bit in the size department. They did good...I was expecting a lot bigger difference than that. New 20700 cells will be great. Also saw that they're going to have a 6ah 20v that will use the new cells too. Slightly larger size as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Hmm. You guys just might be right. Tough to tell in pictures sometimes, especially when the 9.0 yellow is bright enough to burn your corneas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercorarius Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 The sticker is to hide that it is actually going to be a 9.6ah LiHD battery for ass kicking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigh9916 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 It's also longer. Look at the front where the battery release button is located. The 6.0 almost stops right at that button whereas he 9.0 extends a bit further out. It's kinda similar to the way Milwaukee did it. It makes sense they'd be similar because the top connector and release mechanism area have to be compatible with tools using smaller packs. The designers also try to minimize the visual impact and make them look as small as possible but adding another row of cells has to cost a bit in the size department. Yes it seems to slope forward there Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornomaniac Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 20700 cells ( 20mm diameter and 70 mm long ) are only slightly larger then the normal 18650 cells ( 18mm diameter en 650 mm long ) So all in all that battery should only be about 0.5 to 1 centimeter wider and 1 to 1.5 centimeter longer/higher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 6 hours ago, Stercorarius said: The sticker is to hide that it is actually going to be a 9.6ah LiHD battery for ass kicking. You sure about that? I thought maybe that was what was going on, but I've seen another picture since then that looked perfectly normal. Perhaps the battery sticker got damaged and they opted for the label maker so the press photo's were perfect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turner85 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 9 hours ago, Hugh Jass said: Although it's known the 9ah would be coming down the pipeline sometime in the future, I ran across a popular mechanics article that had pictures of it which I hadn't either seen or spotted before. Appears to be only slightly taller, pretty impressive given it has 50% more spunk. Thought the color differences were interesting, easy to spot...but what catches my eye is that there appears to be a raised portion over the 0AH portion of 9.0AH, as though it's a sticker or something. I find that quite odd since they're otherwise identical. Ideas? Good spot. I see what u are saying, it's like the 0ah is a separate sticker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 They might be on the fence between cell suppliers and don't want to disappoint people if they put 9.6 and had trouble sourcing volumes needed for production and needed to drop to 9.0. It's always better to under promise and over deliver. The new cells are better to be sure but a few points of AH here or there really isn't anything to go nuts about. Even the whole 20v vs 18v is kinda a wash; most of these packs are 5x3.6v=18v and 5x4.0 =20v 3.6 being nominal and 4.0 being max voltage. All 20v tools are really 18v nominal and all 18v tools are really 20v max. The odd thing is they all seem to use max voltage of 12v instead of the 10.6 on their compact lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercorarius Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 23 hours ago, Hugh Jass said: You sure about that? I thought maybe that was what was going on, but I've seen another picture since then that looked perfectly normal. Perhaps the battery sticker got damaged and they opted for the label maker so the press photo's were perfect? Just wishful thinking. It could just be piss poor Photoshop work too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercorarius Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 2 hours ago, jon.steward.16 said: On the image above, drill has 60v(USA) on it and the battery is 54v (Europe) but the battery also says 9.3amp hr... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Maybe not wishful thinking after all. From the rotohammer thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 11 minutes ago, Stercorarius said: Maybe not wishful thinking after all. From the rotohammer thread. I KNEW I was on to something...bam. The 9.3 for overseas folk that won't make it to the US. Wonder what that's about. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Hugh Jasstrodamus haha. Pushing the envelope that extra 3.3% strikes me as funny. Still good to make progress though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 1 minute ago, Bremon said: Hugh Jasstrodamus haha. Pushing the envelope that extra 3.3% strikes me as funny. Still good to make progress though. Progress? No...just thought it was weird they'd hide battery labels for a US press release that states 20v on the sticker when it's not even the correct label. I just think it's weird. .3ah clearly doesn't matter...so why mention it anyway? I'm thinking it was 9.3ah for UK but realized nobody cares about .3ah, so they covered it for the US release because it will be a 9.0ah battery here. Afterthoughts always intrigue me...and I find it weird they'd make pre-production batteries with improper labels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 I think that rounding them to the nearest whole Ah is stupid. Panasonic and Metabo (both known for being HIGH quality batteries) have never worried about having odd numbers (3.3, 4.2, 5.2, 5.5, 6.2) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Popularily speaking, that could be the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Blomqvist Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 It may be to brag about the runtime when they compare their 9.0ah (actual 9.3ah) to let's say Milwaukees 9.0ah (if that is the actual ah rating) they may get a couple of cuts more with a recip saw or circular saw. Car manufactures have done this in the past, lowered the actual hp rating equal to others and get better acceleration times on paper. This is just my speculations. Skickat från min SGP511 via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Maybe its just a prototype and not in production yet. That would explain color differences and the lack of labeling on top of the battery. Maybe its not even a real battery and just a mock up to indicate that a 9 ah is planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 I wouldn't get hung up by a few point of Ah. Seriously though Dewalt uses 20v(Max voltage value) vs 18v(nominal voltage value) for their battery packs so the correct Ah rating on their battery should be 8.1Ah and not 9Ah. They are trying to have it both ways quoting both max values when if you raise voltage you necessarily lower Ah. It's all marketing, they all do it. All you need to know is they embiggened their batteries so they have more go juice for longer runtime ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 3 hours ago, JerryNY said: I wouldn't get hung up by a few point of Ah. Seriously though Dewalt uses 20v(Max voltage value) vs 18v(nominal voltage value) for their battery packs so the correct Ah rating on their battery should be 8.1Ah and not 9Ah. They are trying to have it both ways quoting both max values when if you raise voltage you necessarily lower Ah. It's all marketing, they all do it. All you need to know is they embiggened their batteries so they have more go juice for longer runtime ? I understand what you're getting at, but this isn't technically correct. The 'Ah' designated on the batteries is determined by the cells inside and isn't really up for debate. If they use 3 rows of 3Ah (or 3000mAh), the pack is 9Ah. However, the 20V max comes from the maximum potential of 4V of the cells, rather than the nominal potential/voltage of 3.6V. Specifying the max voltage is a little silly but doesn't bother me. What DOES bother me is mutiplying the max voltage with the Ah to get a 'max' Wh', which really doesn't exist. These packs will be 18V x 9Ah = 162Wh, NOT 20x9= 180Wh. But will be marked 180Wh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryNY Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 21 minutes ago, dwain said: I understand what you're getting at, but this isn't technically correct. The 'Ah' designated on the batteries is determined by the cells inside and isn't really up for debate. If they use 3 rows of 3Ah (or 3000mAh), the pack is 9Ah. However, the 20V max comes from the maximum potential of 4V of the cells, rather than the nominal potential/voltage of 3.6V. Specifying the max voltage is a little silly but doesn't bother me. What DOES bother me is mutiplying the max voltage with the Ah to get a 'max' Wh', which really doesn't exist. These packs will be 18V x 9Ah = 162Wh, NOT 20x9= 180Wh. But will be marked 180Wh Yeah I almost totally agree but manufacturers of these cells ALWAYS spec them at their nominal voltages. All the other specs are are dependent on that voltage and you can't change one without affecting the other. Spec sheet on the Panny 20700: http://akkuplus.de/mediafiles/Datenblatt/Panasonic/Panasonic_NCR20700B.pdf They specify Rated capacity(1) 4000mAh Capacity(2) Minimum 4050mAh Typical 4250mAh They don't quarantee these things either. The only way you could really sell them as 4250+ would be to bin them but that would get expensive and prob not worth it unless you were sending these things into orbit and wanted to get the best cherry picked cells possible and cost was a non-issue. The discharge curves are also interesting too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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