Saftey, where to draw the line?

[PutnamEco]

A previous post got me thinking about tools and safety. I'm going to assume that we all agree that safe tools are better tools. Can we go to far insuring safe tools? At what point do we cross the line where additional safety features are deemed excessive?

[Conductor562]

While there are always exceptions, it typically aggravates me when safety appliances cut into the functionality of the tool. Safety lies in the hands of the user for the most part. People will always feel that they are their fingers and they can cut them off if they damn well please. As someone who lives with the American spirit, I'm inclined to agree.

[PutnamEco]

While there are always exceptions, it typically aggravates me when safety appliances cut into the functionality of the tool. Safety lies in the hands of the user for the most part. People will always feel that they are their fingers and they can cut them off if they damn well please. As someone who lives with the American spirit, I'm inclined to agree.

While I won't argue the point that you should be able to cut your own finger off if you want, what happens when your responsible for someone else's safety? How safe a tool would you feel comfortable giving your son or daughter or other significant person in you life to use? Would you let them use a circular saw without a blade guard, knowing what a pain they can be at times? How about a drill without a safety switch? An ungrounded tool? What about something like the Sawstops technology? Where would you draw the line?

[wayneburgess]

I do not think it is just American spirit, I think it is just spirit LOL.

I draw the line quite firmly where I consider that anyone with even the slightest ounce of common sense would be able to work effectively without injury, and anything above that and the people who do manage to hurt themselves should be in the care of others and not allowed near sharp things.

[PutnamEco]

I draw the line quite firmly where I consider that anyone with even the slightest ounce of common sense would be able to work effectively without injury,

That could be a pretty wide and fuzzy line. Lets take the retractable blade guard on a circular saw for example, couldn't a person with "common sense" operate one effectively without it, without injuring them selves, or have blade guards crossed the line?

I personally think the blade guards on circular saws are a wonderful thing. Having had the pleasure of working with saws that were not equipped with them and having to take the extra care to work without it was not really something I would want to deal with on a daily basis, even though the guard often gets in the way for plunge and miter cuts and adds weight and complexity to the saw, I think it is a worthy addition to a circular saw.

[wayneburgess]

Most guards are a good thing.

I was thinking more about another conversation where certain tools such as the flip over saw are not available in The U.S because the powers that be,consider them too much of a danger.

Yet each function has the exact same guards as tools already are already available.

I find this is insane and if I were a U.S citizen i would be very angry.

[Conductor562]

I was in the same frame of mind as Wayne. Blade guards, grounding, safety switches, that's all what I consider basic and essential safety devices. I don't really have a definite line drawn in the sand when it comes to this sort of thing. I just play it by ear and judge each potential infraction of my idea of acceptability based on the merits of the circumstances.

[PutnamEco]

Most guards are a good thing.

I was thinking more about another conversation where certain tools such as the flip over saw are not available in The U.S because the powers that be,consider them too much of a danger.

Yet each function has the exact same guards as tools already are already available.

I find this is insane and if I were a U.S citizen i would be very angry.

I'm not entirely sure that it is a law that we can't have those tools here in the U.S., I have also heard that Americans all have large trucks and don't mind carrying dedicated tools, so there wouldn't be a large enough market here to support bringing and marketing them here. I have also heard that Americans would not be willing to pay the extra cost that these tools command, though I'm pretty sure Festools CMS is out because it doesn't meet our regulations.

We could talk about the saws you have available that take dado blades...

How about Sawstop tech.? From what I've seen it is pretty unobtrusive, Is there anything wrong with requiring it on all new saws? Even if it had to be adapted to portable circular saws? Could come in handy on chainsaws too?

I was in the same frame of mind as Wayne. Blade guards, grounding, safety switches, that's all what I consider basic and essential safety devices. I don't really have a definite line drawn in the sand when it comes to this sort of thing. I just play it by ear and judge each potential infraction of my idea of acceptability based on the merits of the circumstances.

At one time all those previously mentioned "basic andessential" safety devices were not included on tools, I can remember some people complaining long and loud about some of them, granted, saw guards have improved over their lifespan to the point they are at today, so, makes me wonder if a lot of what we are crying about today will be seen tomorrow as "essential".

[wayneburgess]

I just think there comes a point where you have to say hang on a minute here how stupid do they think we all are?

I don't have a problem with safety I have a problem with the illusion of safety which makes the truly stupid amongst us think that injury is impossible.

This is creating an army of fools who are incapable of seeing danger for themselves.Lets face it the lunatic who thought the cruise control would drive the camper while hey nipped in the back to make coffee may be an extreme example of this but you get where i am going with this.

[PutnamEco]

I just think there comes a point where you have to say hang on a minute here how stupid do they think we all are?

And that brings us around to my original question, where is that point.

What safety feature gives the illusion of safety without actually providing any? What is a safety feature that could make one feel stupid?

I get what your saying. How some safety equipment could give some people a false sense of security. In the case of the Sawstop would this really be a false sense? Is it going to far to require this on all saws?

Most of the jobsite injuries that I have witnessed, have just been stupid mistakes or out right accidents. Most have happened to people I would consider as having good common sense. As Ron White says, you can't fix stupid, so what does that leave us with?

I can almost see the day when we will be doing all our work through a keyboard or whatever the latest and greatest input device we come up with is. Some of the CNC machines are doing incredible things and it is only a matter of time before we see a machine that you put a raw tree in one end and end up with a living room set coming out the other, and there is the whole 3d printing universes that can already "print" structural components.

[Conductor562]

I wasn't familiar with CNC machines until about a year ago. When I saw the demo I thought it was a hoax. I was looking for Ashton Kutcher to jump out at me or something. Amazing.