ToolBane

I won’t even be needing this for a few months at least but HD having a sale right now wasn’t a bad incentive

Exactly, the power coming out of your wall is going to be the same either way Also if everyone had to buy a separate charger on top of everything else it just makes Flexvolt look even more like an entirely different platform than it already is

Shiny

Your daughter having cordless tools before you reminds me a little too much of the old couple mocking my flip phone -sent by my iPhone

If you weren’t already aware, avoid storing lithium batteries fully charged for any significant length of time

This implementation as they described wouldn’t necessarily be badged “X4” though...since it’s series-parallel the operating voltage will still be 36V. Have to wonder if that also means you could run it still with just two batteries. Hmm...

Funny how they did that ending. Makita’s totally being a tease but I like it.

I could see the benefit of X4 for things like lawn mowers but batteries with more than 6Ah should be a higher priority

Got this to be my cordless option for Dremel-type applications. Specs pretty close to the die grinder for $50 less and comes with a 1/8” collet out of the box, so we’ll see how it does.

I have noticed they could mark their levers better (which direction is lock or unlock) just so people don’t forget which way is which if they haven’t used the tool in a few

https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/BL1820B

I think I agree with that sentiment as far as the overall market is concerned...even though I thoroughly plan on getting a dedicated AWS-compatible vac when I get around to picking up the plunge and miter saws

Will be really neat to see what other applications for AWS will come up as they develop it

Sadly I do. I remember having a LOT of arguments with electrical engineers back then playing with cold fusion tubs in their living rooms who were convinced they were going to figure out how to make cold fusion work. I don’t even know where to begin with everything that’s wrong with that scenario. Anyone with a reasonably solid science background could immediately see through that so the science community never took any of it seriously. But no one listens to actual scientists anyway for some reason, least of all the media, so... The hurdles involved with solid state batteries however are much more reasonable to overcome. Still just speculating, but roughly a decade away...I think that’s plausible.

Correct, and nowhere do my words imply that the properties of lithium change based on cell size. Except you continue to not properly apply the pertinent concepts, sooo...? I think it’s plain as day obvious when I say larger cells and larger cross-sectional areas I am referring to physical sizes and not Ah capacities.

I think we’re roughly a decade away, but that’s random speculation

Not what I said at all. The lithium’s behavior not changing (although it CAN be changed, but for the purposes of this discussion we’re assuming it isn’t changing to a significant degree) has nothing to do with why there will be a higher current output available if the cell is bigger. The electrical resistance of any given component in the circuit path is dependent on a number of factors, but one of them is cross-sectional area of the resisting material. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the water-through-tube analogy used to help describe how lower resistance allows more current flow, but that’s one concept that will be operating here. You make the tube bigger, more water will flow under any given amount of pressure. The same way simply adding a second tube will flow more water. What most directly governs that? Well you’ve increased the cross-sectional area of the “conductor”. The water hasn’t changed. The pipe material hasn’t changed. The resistance drops because the cross-sectional area of the conductor has been increased. It operates the same whether we’re putting two cells in parallel or just making a bigger cell. The material property of the lithium or anything else hasn’t changed in either case. I’m not going to go dig through your “Battery University” website for you to find where they’ll likely explain it but if they go into the topic at any college-level detail at all (hell even just slightly beyond freshman highschool physics) they’ll eventually cover this. That is if they are reasonably scientifically responsible. Just because they call themselves “Battery University” doesn’t guarantee they actually have University-level information on-hand.

It’s entirely true, by the same means that two cells in parallel will output twice the current as a single cell, which is why power tools so often have better performance output with 2-bank batteries versus 1-bank “compact” batteries. All other things being equal a cell that is larger will have lower internal resistance since the current is flowing across a larger cross-sectional surface area, and since there’s also more mass, the battery will dissipate more energy lost as heat before increasing temperature by any given amount.

Some of the more interesting points: -Up to 2-3x the charge density of current lithium batteries -Substantially reduced risk of flammability or explosion -No concerns regarding memory effects -Expected to last upwards of ten times as many charge/discharge cycles -Much wider operating temperature

Within reason, larger cells will be able to belt out more current per-cell without negatively affecting longevity. That’s another part of the attraction of larger cells. Makita’s X2 tools aren’t really where they need bigger capacity batteries (yet) though. From where I sit it’s more about the larger-consumption 18 volt tools. A pair of Makita’s 6Ah batteries in X2 is still running perfectly even with Milwaukee’s and Dewalt’s newest 12Ah batteries. But those 12Ah batteries can be used on any of their tools, while Makita’s non-X2 are limited to 6Ah. Not really an issue for most of them, in fact they look (and are) stupid on things like impact drivers, compact drills, and other small tools. Plenty of other tools though extra Ah is a good idea, as is a design that can output more current than 2 banks of 18650 cells. Personally I think Makita should aim to retain an apparent edge by aiming between the grooves, where their X2 tools will have a decided advantage in Ah while not giving up too much on higher-drain non-X2 tools. 8-9Ah units should be a priority somewhere in the not-too-distant future.

All the different solutions have their pros and cons. Hitachi’s will limit them into only having 2 banks of cells. Just as Flexvolt can only work with 3. So I see Hitachi hitting a performance ceiling more quickly than either X2 or Flexvolt. Well, unless they also start doing some “X2” variant a la Makita. Which they can, I guess. Both Dewalt and Ryobi actually have their own rebrandings of X2. Hitachi doing X2 would then be able to say they have 72V. So actually that may not be that bad. Makita by appearances seems to like to keep their line appearing uncluttered, whether or not that’s beneficial or not. Maybe it’s to maximize compatibility or simplify the system intuitively for customers, but I don’t anticipate we’ll ever see them release a 3Ah compact until they decide their just done with the current 2-bank 3Ah, for example. I mention this because I get the impression they don’t want to do both 3-bank 18650 batteries and 2-bank 20/21700s at the same time. I can see advantages to either direction, and wouldn’t personally care if they released both. But a lot of buyers would probably get confused when one format invariably doesn’t work with this or that tool they already have. The tabs that prevent users from using compact batteries on most Makita tools already get grumbles from people.

Well it’s nice to hear a semi-firm answer, I’ll just hope they come before September and aren’t $500 a pair.

Well now that I’ve gotten home to check, I do notice some in/out play on my XDT-11Z...yeah maybe 4mm worth. (Haven’t checked the XDT-12T I also have, but I also don’t feel like digging through the workshop to get it at this hour.) Not much side-side wobble though. Not feeling terribly pressed about it to be honest. I have noticed my Ryobi impact driver after some use deformed the Milwaukee 1/2” square adapter I have in it a smidge and suddenly it wouldn’t fit in my cheaper Makita without a bit of force. I had to shove the bit into the Makita and use a deep impact socket to hold the bit still in my hand while driving into impact mode in reverse a little bit to straighten the bit back out. Now it fits either impact like a glove again. This only speaks to the Ryobi having slightly looser tolerances (and/or flimsier shaft) laterally/torsionally relative to the Makita, which is not at all unexpected for a budget brand in comparison to a “prosumer” tool. I also do notice the Ryobi has only 2mm of play in/out. Personally, I find the larger degree of lateral/torsional wobble in the Ryobi to be more disconcerting, but had I not had the Makita on-hand for the direct comparison I would never have noticed either in the first place. I don’t have any other brands nor feel any pressing desire to buy any merely to investigate further. I would still be inclined to speculate Makita merely has this extra “slop” to give it more compatibility with a wider range of other brands of bits. Unlikely to think they’d have put it in there just being lazy.

Like how much? I don’t think a small amount of in/out is all that big a deal. Not every company is guaranteed to use the same tolerances so mixing bits from different companies can lead to different degrees of fitment. There could also be small differences based on region of the world, and you probably acquired that impact from the Japanese market? Crazy how they released this when the 170 was already probably the best impact driver even just a year ago. Although they aren’t bothering to release it stateside yet which is a bit of a bummer. I have the 170 (XDT12T state-side) and am extremely happy with it. The YouTube linked here (mods please message me if posting the link isn’t kosher and I can edit it out) is probably the most comprehensive and objective test I’ve seen and the Makita won fairly decisively. But I guess impact drivers are a good idea to not sit on your laurels with. The TTI triumvirate released three impact drivers that are all substantial increases in torque and rpm over the models they replace. Makita does not seem to be overly preoccupied with winning torque number wars though. Or maybe they just under-rate their numbers more than other manufacturers. The 170 won 2 of the 3 practical performance tests in this comparison outright and was a close second in the last. This 171 appears to have the same motor structure and torque/rpm numbers; most of the changes appear to be about features. Still, in my opinion impact drivers have reached a point where more power seems superfluous and they are better served adding features for better precision and so on. The better impact drivers are well past the point of being able to take lug nuts off of cars and trucks and the simple reality is there’s no objective reason to be designing 1/4” hex tools to do that.

Well here’s a screenshot from where I first happened across this...hopefully this comes back up sooner rather than later