ToolBane

Seems like the sort of things they are practically obligated to do.

Well yeah. Hence why I agree with the notion of including results with both the uber-huge batteries for the manufacturers that have them along with the results when the battery capacities are normalized, PLUS some discussion comparing how the different batteries impacted results. Thing to me is, of course any given company that happens to have higher-output batteries has an incentive to argue their product needs to be tested that way. And sure you have to report where people can go if they want the best “right now” performance. But what about the hypothetical where team-pink’s tool can’t beat out team-purple’s tool unless team-pink uses the 3-bank battery that team-purple has yet to release? IF team pink’s tool we’re truly designed to make better use of higher current output, it probably shouldn’t NEED a bigger battery to avoid losing. So if a tool company was making that argument to me to justify basing their tool’s performance exclusively on their larger capacity battery, I’m actually going to get skeptical in a hurry.

This or something else has to be a big contributor for numbers going that far off, especially a 5Ah taking a full 30 minutes longer than advertised. I’ve never thought to bother timing my batteries but if my 5Ah ever took that much longer than they were supposed to I sure as hell would have noticed. The advertised charge times for the most part go up linearly with total battery capacity, suggesting the same current rate is going into the cells regardless of capacity. This makes perfect sense whether the limiting factor is all these cells being the same size or the charger simply operating at its current limit. Either way no shortage of other users report them coming in at the advertised time. Thinking on this further, it will be interesting to see if Makita will need/want an updated charger that can/will put higher charge currents into the upcoming larger cells that in theory should be able to handle it.

You of course are already well aware all it means when Milwaukee, Dewalt et al are releasing these batteries is that the actual manufacturers of the cells are merely getting them to price points that are more broadly accessible to the market. So it’s really just a matter of time. That said, I hope Makita doesn’t sit back too long taking their buyers for granted. I’m not concerned yet, but certainly wouldn’t mind seeing Makita having an answer before too long.

I guess that’s a reasonable consideration, but is the Bosch not sold as a bare-tool? Of course you’ll have to pick a winner for “best right-now” performance, so if for example the Bosch with it’s 7Ah capacity battery takes the cake then great. Then discuss by what degree the larger battery may have played a role by comparing the “normalized” results of all tools using 5Ah batteries across the board. My priorities won’t be the same as everyone else’s, in fact I might be a small minority so I don’t want to overstate or anything, but to me the normalized results are what I would want to see first. After that how significant a performance gain do larger batteries yield in general. All these manufacturers are going to be having 3-bank, 10Ah+ batteries coming before too long, and I don’t think it a radical assumption that all the tools you’ll be testing will yield better results when it happens, the same way impact drivers benefit every time you use a dual-bank battery in place of a compact single-bank.

Battery capacities are a moving target. Any company running “only” 6Ah batteries today could be running 12Ah tomorrow. Dewalt is planning on releasing such a beast soon, and there are no magical forces to suggest we won’t see the same from every other company before long. Everyone knows they all source their cells from the same manufacturers anyway. My opinion the most objective testing should be done matching battery capacities as closely as possible. You can always do a comparative analysis after the fact, showing the degree brands currently having larger Ah batteries will perform even better than the “standard baseline” of 5-6Ah.

Whenever I have enough room, I’ll be getting Makita’s x2 miter and plunge saws. Oh and their planer and vacuum. Not sure how long that wait will be given how inflated my local housing market is. But when it happens I’ll be in tool nirvana.

My guess is Milwaukee will deny that they are looking at m18x2 as long as their 28V platform retains enough of a base that will get miffed when they find their m28 tools are dead-end tech. There’s no way they can honestly not be thinking in that direction when littlest brother Ryobi already has “X2” tools with 6-9Ah batteries around the corner. Only other possibility I can imagine they might be looking at is to contrive something analogous to Flexvolt which dances far enough off Dewalt’s design to escape patent infringement.

Because 1) so many people with no familiarity with this stuff see the bigger number and assume it must mean the Dewalt products possess some advancement than the competitors lack so they purchase according to that, and 2) certain people who are more predisposed to more fanboyism than others and don’t know any better will argue the superiority of their brand of choice based on the same misunderstanding and because they’re fanboys it’s impossible to talk logical sense into them. The 12V deal is more forgivable because it’s more of a universal market convention, and the way the numbers round off it’s a sensible one. 10.8V nominal is a clunky number given the cognitive depth of the average American. But 11V is an incredibly unsexy number to round off to from a marketing standpoint. 12V peak voltage at no load became the convention pretty much everyone in the US market uses. A manufacturer could choose to lose potential customers going against market convention saying 10.8V, but no one does. This is the reverse of what happens with Dewalt going against the market convention and calling their batteries 20V instead of the nominal 18V that they like most competitors actually are.

Dang...

Not worried about anything “game-changing” myself enough for that. How quickly do any of these companies ever changeover their entire lineup, or even a significant proportion, to tip the scales that significantly? Would take several years, during which time Makita is releasing tools too. Heck, the best thing that can happen for Makita users is Milwaukee releasing a few cool tools forcing Makita to up their game on some tools they haven’t had to bother with for a while. The only thing that could make me regret having gone Makita recently would be the ridiculously unlikely event that Makita goes completely belly-up in the next couple years. Not remotely a worry to me.

I would have liked to have come across this before getting some Ryobi batteries and chargers...

$100 for the sander, $200 if you want it in a kit... https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-5-in-Random-Orbit-Sander-Tool-Only-2648-20/304591900 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-5-in-Cordless-Random-Orbit-Sander-Kit-with-1-3-0Ah-Battery-Charger-and-Tool-Bag-2648-21/304748647

Ironically what I like most about this story is how 1950s sci-fi this drill looks

Occasional “simple wood-working chores” and you’d like to stay within your current platform to me says M12 by default

I don’t qualify as a tool fanatic really, but when I was 10 or so my dad bought a Black and Decker jigsaw. I have no idea what he actually bought it for, but like most of the tools he bought I ended up being the one that used it all the time. My first “project” with the thing was cutting out rubber band guns to look like in the Robotech cartoon.

I don’t know if efficiency number for power tool motors are easy to find at all but 540-sized hobby motors (think 1.25”x1.5” or so) brushed units struggle to get much over 70% efficiency while brushless can get into the mid-90s. There’s variance of course depending on how well engineered an individual motor of either type is but the ceiling will always be higher with brushless. And brushless motors can output a lot more power from any given volume as well. That’s going to be a close comparison with a lot of smaller power tools.

Makita 12-volt stuff doesn’t cost so much, is blue(ish) and cute. She’d dig it.

Power = Voltage x Current

I’m perfectly happy to agree that quipping about the Makita achieving “merely” the same run time with slightly more power available then docking it points over it was a little tacky, although i’ve seen other reviewers do the same to the benefit of Milwaukee and Dewalt...while I haven’t noticed Makita get awarded extra points when performing the same with less available battery power. I have no idea if certain other manufacturers may be fussing more about comparative battery capacities during the comparisons when they can turn things to their advantage. On the other hand, it’s kind of funny when competitors are getting these handouts and Makita wins anyway.

What did you feel were some of the video shortcomings? This isn’t actually a tool I have a personal interest/expectation in getting I just happened to come across the review.

This tends to explain things

More new tools sporting over-sized battery wells

It’s so cute, tho! I’m trying to guess maybe it’s more useful in other parts of the world. Where a compact backup miter that isn’t a burden to tote around to small jobs in compacts on most of the world’s tighter roads could be kind of appealing. Although I *need* at least a 10” miter myself, 90+% of the cuts I have to do could probably be done on that little 6”.