kanxrus Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Many of you have PM'd me about doing a test with the New Dewalt DCD950, and the New Makita BHP454! I understand that the BHP454 will be replacing the BHP451...or least at your local Home Depot. I'm going to assume the reason the BHP451 no longer has a 3 speed transmission, is because of a patent issue? I will continue to assume that until someone from Makita tells me otherwise. This test will compare internal specs, demo testing, weight, features and benefits! We will start off with WEIGHT: As you can see the Makita BHP454 is approx. 5oz lighter than the Dewalt DCD950. The Makita BL1830 Li-ion is approx. 2.5oz lighter than the Dewalt DC9180 Li-ion. INTERNAL SPECS: You can see the DCD950 has a copper heat sink, while the BHP454 has aluminum. Both drills have a dual collar design that allows users to keep there clutch setting while switching to drill, screw, and hammerdrill mode. Dewalt DCD950 uses the Rohm Supra SK self tightening chuck, the Makita BHP454 uses the Jacobs 500 series ratcheting chuck. Makita ARMATURE has a longer design, while the Dewalt ARMATURE uses a larger design. Both have well secured magnets, however Dewalts magnet ring is much larger. The Dewalt DCD950 gears are secured, while Makita's BHP454 gears are free floating. The Dewalt DCD950 shifting ring is solid metal, the Makita BHP454 Is plastic. The Dewalt DCD950 uses a much larger brush than the Makita BHP454. FEATURES & BENEFITS: Makita still features a back cap that can easily be removed for quick brush changes. Even though this is a nice feature, there is one problem with this design, the armature bearing rides inside this back cap. One good drop to the back of this tool and you could ruin the armature, or throw it off balance which would eventually lead to motor failure. Makita BHP454 has a 4 pole motor, while the Dewalt DCD950 has a 2 pole. In terms of Torque, 4 pole motors generally create more especially at lower RPM's than the 2 pole motors. However, 4 pole motors usually have much lower RPM's than a 2 pole motor. Higher RPM's are great for Hammer drilling (percussion) on a cordless drill The Makita BHP454 features a nice belt clip out of the box. The Dewalt DCD950 does not have a belt clip. The Makita BHP454 has two accessory storage clips, the Dewalt DCD950 has one. Both the Makita BHP454, and Dewalt DCD950 have front LED lights. The Makita features two LED lights that stay's on for approx 10 seconds after the trigger is released. The Dewalt has a single LED light turns on and off with the pull of the trigger. ONTO THE DEMO TEST! In this test we used a Douglas fir 2x12. In our previous tests we used White Pine. Pine is much softer than Fir, which allowed us to drill more holes. This new Makita did very well in our test. It's pretty amazing that the DeWALT 950 can do more work at a faster pace with less battery capacity. Besides efficiency, I'm guessing the DeWALT is faster because it has more sustained torque and the fact that the nano-phosphate batteries are able to provide more current than the chemistry used by Makita. The Dewalt DCD950 completed 23 holes. The Makita BHP454 completed 21 holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadsan Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Nice Review !!! Was there any difference in the quality of the cut between the two drills? Since the DeWALT 950 cut faster, I was just curious if by chance it also cut cleaner or if there was any difference at all. Both tools performed very well. I sure wish the 950 had provisions for an optional belt hook, but I'm glad to see the LED on the 950. The 950 appears to be a "Super Duty" tool. I realize the feel of a tool is highly personal, but did one tool feel much better in your hands than the other or was there little difference to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Nice Review !!! Was there any difference in the quality of the cut between the two drills? Since the DeWALT 950 cut faster, I was just curious if by chance it also cut cleaner or if there was any difference at all. Both tools performed very well. I sure wish the 950 had provisions for an optional belt hook, but I'm glad to see the LED on the 950. The 950 appears to be a "Super Duty" tool. I realize the feel of a tool is highly personal, but did one tool feel much better in your hands than the other or was there little difference to you? There is a unique feel to the Makita. Both are well balanced, but being 7oz lighter, and a thinner grip the Makita feels better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btr Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Just a note, while i don't really have preference between these two drills, I did notice that on the video, the second set of hole's with the makita the tester was also drilling though the bottom board. take a look. Thanks again for the review great info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Welcome to the forum BTR, and thanks for your post. However, the tester was myself. I did not drill through the second board. The camera angle is deceiving, the 2 9/16 self feed bit would not push through the board 1 1/2" in if it were drilling through the bottom board. Have another look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krane Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Copper is only a better remover of heat as a heatsink when there is a large amount of airflow over the heatsink itself. -If Air flow speeds are very high (over 800 linear feet per minute). The larger magnet core in the Dewalt is only that size due to the large bore of the armature itself. The Makita magnet ring is more slender due to the longer shape of the armature. The Makita also uses a rare earth magnet instead of ferrite magnets. Rare earth magnets provide the highest magnetic energy to accommodate in small shapes and sizes with greater performance. The longer shape of the Makita armature provides a tool that is lighter weight and better balanced. "The Dewalt DCD950 shifting ring is solid metal, the Makita BHP454 Is plastic." The Makita gear itself is metal and has many more teeth than the Dewalt. The Dewalt gear has only six teeth to rely on. The likely hood of failure in the Dewalt gear is much more likely based on the gear teeth. What gear speed was chosen for the test that was conducted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Welcome to the forum Toonut! Thanks for your interest in the post. You raise valid points, but all allow me to reiterate on what was previously posted a little better. Copper is only a better remover of heat as a heatsink when there is a large amount of airflow over the heatsink itself. -If Air flow speeds are very high (over 800 linear feet per minute). Copper is a better conductor, and it will displace heat more evenly. Airflow is a huge factor. However, the Makita chose to mount there aluminum heat sink next to the magnet ring. The magnet ring generates a lot of heat, especially under heavy loads. Blowing all that hot air onto the heat sink is counterproductive! With that said, It could be argued that both setups are similarly effective. Aluminum is cheaper and lighter than copper, which was just one more cost cutter Makita chose to make. The larger magnet core in the Dewalt is only that size due to the large bore of the armature itself. The Makita magnet ring is more slender due to the longer shape of the armature. The Makita also uses a rare earth magnet instead of ferrite magnets. Rare earth magnets provide the highest magnetic energy to accommodate in small shapes and sizes with greater performance. I simply don't have enough information on Dewalts new "patent pending flat magnet design" to raise any arguments. I've never seen a magnet ring quite like the DCD950's. I'll let someone else argue that. Or you could let the video argue it? The Makita gear itself is metal and has many more teeth than the Dewalt. The Dewalt gear has only six teeth to rely on. The likely hood of failure in the Dewalt gear is much more likely based on the gear teeth. I never posted anything regarding the metal gear inside the plastic shifting ring. Let's face it, if there is going to be major transmission failure, it's going to be within the gears themselves. Dewalt's gear box dissipates heat much better than Makitas, and the gears themselves are actually secured...back to the shifting ring. The Makita's plastic shifting ring connects to the selector lever via another tiny piece of plastic that is supported by two small springs. That's going to be your first point of failure. Again, another cost cut by Makita. What gear speed was chosen for the test that was conducted? The test was done in first gear. Find me a 18v cordless drill that can push a 2 9/16" self feed bit through Fir in any gear but 1st, and I'll buy it! One side note, if the Makita’s slender design, and rare earth magnets are so powerful....then couple that with a 4 pole motor. Why then, did the Makita take longer, struggle harder, and drill less holes than the DCD950? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krane Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I was under the impression there was a non-biased test here. When you leave out facts that leads one to believe that maybe your trying to sway the opinion of the reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Not biased, just posting facts. Sorry you disagree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krane Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I don't see your evaluations of the internals as fact at all. Copper is only a better conductor when air flow is present. Rare earth magnets are better conductors of electricity than ferrite magnets. A few things I found to be left out of your commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 So your saying I staged the video, and doctored the photo's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krane Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 You said it, not me. I would say there are many conditions that create a good tool overall. Tools are used in many different environments and conditions day to day. So, I would say your video tells part of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Sorry to come across harsh, but I'm just posting pictures and videos as real as it comes. Your right, this is not the whole picture. Each user is going to use there tool as they see fit. Some will take care of there tool, while others manage to destroy it. I am just showing a potential user a small glimpse of what they are buying. Last I looked no one else online was spending there personal capital for others to benefit from!? It's ok to disagree with me. Nothing else is better than a good debate. If you plan on fligging mud, plan on getting some back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadsan Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Another point to mention are the spindle differences. I'm guessing the Makita BHP454 has a conventional drilled spindle with a reverse threaded keeper screw securing the chuck where as the DCD950 has a 'solid' spindle (non-drilled). The solid (non-drilled) spindle with the super tough Rohm chuck was one of the features that sold me on DeWALT's newer hammer drills. A solid spindle should be stronger and tougher than a drilled spindle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erngum Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Admin, Thanks for the review/video. And I'd be happy to buy the Makita from you if you choose not to keep it (just kidding). I just bought the new Bosch combo w/ the hammer drill. Any chance you could borrow a new Bosch hammer drill and repeat the comparison w/ the other two? I'll never drill that many holes in a row, but it would be nice to see how well the Bosch compares to the others. I have two Makita lithium tools (compact 18v drill and impact) but I was just not that enthused by the BHP451 or 454. I bought the compacts to use in my wood shop and they fit the bill nicely for woodworking. I have a deck project coming up this summer so I bought the Bosch combo instead. They just seem like they'll hold up better with abuse. I've never been a Dewalt cordless type and have favored Bosch since I own many of their woodworking tools. Don't get me wrong, I love my Makitas, but the hammer drill never excited me that much with the lower torque ratings than most in that category. Ern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadsan Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 ...Any chance you could borrow a new Bosch hammer drill and repeat the comparison w/ the other two?... Have you seen this post yet? It compares the Bosch hammer drill to a few others and there's video of the Bosh as well. Here's the link... http://thepowertoolforum.com/index.php/topic,23.0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted March 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 it's actually the drill/driver model only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCDevildog73 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I know we are talking about the dcd950 here but I thought it would be good for me to mention that the dc925 also out performs the makita bhp454. I own both the dc925 and the makita bhp454. I like my Makita drill but would have to say that even the older dc925 performs better. Especially when hammer drilling. I was drilling some 1/2 inch holes to install some red heads and man the dc925 drilled them like a hot knife thru butter. It was awesome to see how quickly it drilled. The Makita on the other hand did well, but drilled the holes a lot slower. I know the Makita is rated at 560lbs of torque, if either the dc925 or dcd950 were still using torque ratings, I think it would be safe to say that the Dewalts would be in the 600lb and above class. Maybe around 630lbs of torque. Don't get me wrong, I love Makitas stuff, but hands down the Dewalt drills are a cut above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted April 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 .....I like my Makita drill but would have to say that even the older dc925 performs better. Especially when hammer drilling. I was drilling some 1/2 inch holes to install some red heads and man the dc925 drilled them like a hot knife thru butter. It was awesome to see how quickly it drilled. The Makita on the other hand did well, but drilled the holes a lot slower. I know the Makita is rated at 560lbs of torque, if either the dc925 or dcd950 were still using torque ratings, I think it would be safe to say that the Dewalts would be in the 600lb and above class. Maybe around 630lbs of torque. Don't get me wrong, I love Makitas stuff, but hands down the Dewalt drills are a cut above. The difference in 3rd (no load max RPM's) gear between the Dewalt DC925 and the Makita BHP454, is 300 RPM's.(Makita 0-1700, Dewalt 0-2000) The difference in 3rd gear BPM is 11,500. (Makita 0-22,500, Dewalt 0-34,000) I've done many tests in hammerdrill mode between a handful of popular brand drills. The DC925 in hammerdill mode has outperformed all but one. That drill happened to be the new Hilti SFH 18-A CPC. It's actually a 21.6v drill. Why they chose to call it an 18v+ is a mystery to me??... Anywho, you may be surprised to know that the DC925 only has 500 in lbs of maximum torque. Torque is another topic all on it's own! Just remember that torque is only one side of the cube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCDevildog73 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 WOW!!! Thanks for letting me know about that. Would the the dcd950 be about the same as the the dc925 in terms of torque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted April 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Dewalt rated the DCD950 at 450 UWO. The DC925 is 480. I have not seen any torque specs out there for the DCD950. If Dewalt jumps on board with PTI , then you might start seeing public torque specs for Dewalt drills. Application speed is going to be the same in 3rd gear. 3rd gear is really just for putting in fastners, so I don't see any torque related issues there. The DCD950's second gear has been turned down to 1,250 RPM's. Which means you can now complete tougher drilling tasks that you may have attempted only in 1st gear with the DC925. The DCD950's 1st gear was kicked up to 500 RPM's, so running 2 9/16" self feed bits are much faster. Even though the DCD950 has a lower UWO rating, I still feel like the DCD950 struggled less durning my testing than the DC925. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCDevildog73 Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 anyway you can perform a test on how the dc925 stacks up against the bhp454on the same fir wood with the same bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I have no plans of doing any more tests against older products. People are really only interested in new products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCDevildog73 Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 do you have video on the dc925 vs dcd950? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted May 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 I don't have a video, but if I get around to it, I'll make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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