Jump to content

Who's Using What? Lithium Ion.


kanxrus

Recommended Posts

So what kind of lithium ion cells are they using?

In the Sub-Compact M-12 battery 48-11-2401, Milwaukee uses the Samsung INR18650 13Q Cells.

48-11-2401.jpg

In the Sub Compact 12v battery R86048, Ridgid uses Sanyo UR18650SAX Cells.

R86048_1.jpg

In the compact battery BAT609, Bosch uses the Samsung INR18650 13Q Cells.

bat609-5.jpg

In the compact battery 130156001, Craftsman uses the Samsung INR18650 13Q Cells.

130156001_6.jpg

In the DC9180 battery, Dewalt uses the A123 APR18650M1 Cells.

DC9180_7.jpg

In the compact battery BSL1815X, Hitachi uses the Sanyo UR18650SAX cells.

Hitbat3.jpg

In the compact battery BL1815, Makita's uses Sony SE US18650OV, in the BL1830, Makita uses Sony SE US18650VT.

BL18302.jpg

Makita%20BL1815_4.jpg

In the compact battery 48-11-1815, Milwaukee uses Samsung INR18650 13Q Cells. Or the E-Moli IMR-18650E Cells.

2601-31.jpg

2601-33.jpg

In the M-18 XC battery 48-11-1828, Milwaukee uses Samsung INR18650 13Q Cells.

48-11-1828_4.jpg

In the compact battery  R840084, Ridgid uses E-Moli IMR-18650E Cells.

R840084d.jpg

In the compact battery P103, Ryboi uses Samsung INR18650 13Q Cells.

P103_4.jpg

Bosch, Craftsman, Milwaukee, and Ryobi all use the same Samsung INR18650 13Q cell.

Bosch - BAT609, $69. That's $13.80 per cell. (5 cells)

Craftsman - 130156001, $89. That's $17.80 per cell. (5 cells)

Milwaukee - 48-11-1815, $69. That's $13.80 per cell. ( 5 cells)

Milwaukee - 48-11-1828, $119. That's $11.90 per cell (10 cells)

Milwaukee - 48-11-2401, $40. That's $13.33 per cell (3 cells)

Ryobi - P103, $49. That's $9.80 per cell. (5 cells)

Makita and Hilti use the same Sony SE US18650VT cells.

Makita - BL1815, $79. That's $15.80 per cell. (5 cells)

Makita - BL1830, $99. That's $9.90 per cell. (10 cells)

Hilti - 360383, $189. That's $15.75 per cell. (12 cells)

Dewalt - DC9180, $149. That's $12.41 per cell. (12 cells)

Hitachi - BSL1815X, $79. That's $15.80 per cell. (5 cells)

Ridgid - R86048, $40. That's $13.33 per cell. (3 cells)

Ridgid - R840084, $69, That's $13.80 per cell. (5 cells)

Well I'm not sure If I should give Ryobi (TTI) credit for using the same Samsung cells as Milwaukee (TTI) Craftsman (TTI) and Bosch? Or frown at TTI and Bosch? One thing is for certain, your paying a whole lot less for the same battery technology in the Ryobi P103 battery.

Even though the Dewalt DC9180 battery is the second most expensive battery, it is one of the 3rd least expensive per cell. At least Dewalt is not charging you more for the name! (Hilti) Plus your getting the best Lithium Ion Chemistry available for power tools.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...

Samsung put up their li-ion cell website. Also took apart the Bosch 10.8 battery, uses Samsung 13650-13P.

13Q and 13P are identical except the max discharge rate, both are 1.3 Ah @ 260 mA discharge. 13P is 10 Amps and 13Q is 18A. So all the 18v 2.6 Ah Bosch/Milwaukee/Ryobi etc stuff should have about the same torque at equal RPM. Milwaukee might be weaker because they use shit motors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Anyone ever realize that the Craftsman batteries are marketed/claimed to be 19.2v.

But, given the info here about what they're made of, that can't be.

The Samsung INR 18650-13Q battery cell (of which there are five) is a 3.6v cell

3.6 * 5 == 18v

The battery is marketed as a 19.2v battery -- which, given the inputs, is impossible.

This smells like a class action lawsuit to me.  They're claiming something that can't be, and we're all 6.67% worse off due to their misleading practices...

All of the other batteries which are using 5 of those cells are all clearly stated to be 18v units -- except for the Sears/Craftsman/DieHard ....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

19.2 volts can be reached when the circuit is open (no load), it is the state when the battery is fully charged (3.8V-3.9V/cell) Under load conditions the battery voltage drops to 18V (3.6V/cell) until cut-off (2.7V-3.0/cell), lower voltages can destroy Li-Ion batteries, that's why they have protection circuits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
  • 5 months later...

hi

A123 APR18650M1  cell have nominal voltage of 3.3 volt and 1000ma this give a 3.3  w/h, output 30amp discharge

sony se us18650vt  cell have nominal voltage of 3.7 volt and 1100ma this give a 4.07 w/h, output 15Amp discharge

sony se us18650vt  cell have nominal voltage of 3.7 volt and 1500ma this give a 5.55 w/h, output 15Amp discharge

sanyo UR18650SAX cell have nominal voltage of 3.7 volt and 1250ma this give a 4.63 w/h, output 20Amp discharge

Samsung INR18650 13q cell have nominal voltage of 3.6 volt and 1300ma this give a 4.68, w/h output 18Amp discharge

Samsung INR18650 13p cell have nominal voltage of 3.6 volt and 1300ma this give a 4.68, w/h output 10Amp discharge

E-Moli IMR-18650E  cell have nominal voltage of 3.8 volt and 1400ma this give a 5.32w/h, output 20Amp discharge

dischage rate give you the torque possibility of battery,but the real workhorse is the watts/hour it give you the real capacity of the cell,the power output in the time.

you can make the cost per w/h of battery yourself

have a nice day

teckno

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Teckno,  even though watt hours seems like the most true and accurate measure of a batteries capacity, it's not the whole story.  This is because w/h are usually measured at a very low discharge rate.  The measurement will not be the same at a high discharge rate.

So while a Sony se us18650v cell may be rated at 5.55 w/h, it might be just half of that when drained at a 15 amp rate.

This can be illustrated by comparing two tools.  One might drill more holes with any bit under 1", but the other drills more with any larger bit.

If we wanted a really meaningful measure of tools for comparison, we'd have "watt hours out" at low, medium, and high loads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Well, here goes my first post here!

I haven't seen much info out there on the Skil 18V pack (SB18B-LI) that is a drop in replacement for the Ni-Cads that are known for being horrible in every regard.

I decided to pick up one of the kits from Home Depot as it was only about $90 from the online store and I have quite a few of these tools floating around including a full sized 7.25 saw that has always been a favorite of mine.  The tools were all in great shape but a small amount of neglect to the batteries have resulted in 4 dead packs.

Since I've looked at rebuilding the Ni-Cad packs as well I was curious which cells they used in these packs and have taken some pictures to share with the thread here.  Looks like this is where you're getting the Skil name, looks to be a well designed product and then they get the lowest rated cells to do the job.  When these cells are getting weak I think I'll replace them with some 25-30A units and see how that helps torque and such.

Great info here!  Thanks for giving me a reason to open these things up.  :)

sb18bli2.jpgsb18bli1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting these in. I've never taken a Skil cordless tool apart. Bosch currently uses Samsung cells, and being a partner in crime it's no surprise to see Samsung cells being used here. Samsung is the creater of Milwaukee's Red-lithium a battery that finally caught Milwaukee up with the rest of the competition in my opinion.

I don't think rebuilding any lithium pack is a good idea, unless your simply replacing the cells with the same type of cell. Each brand has it's own unique charging method, and as such could be dangerous... or the charger may not even charge them?

If you move forward with the rebuild, post in a follow-up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I've ordered a second charger and battery pack and that may be one I test a rebuild on.  Then I can keep the old set of cells on a shelf for reuse.  I noticed that when using them in the sawzall they get warm and shut down after about 5 minutes of use. (Just cutting up some branches in the lawn)

Looking at this chart:

http://www.samsungsdi.com/battery/cylindrical-rechargeable-battery.jsp

I see the batteries are the 10A models, yikes... Not a whole lot of current available from those cells...  My plan was to replace them with the same series of cells, just with a higher current draw rating.  If I can get my hands on some INR18650-13R cells that'd be great, but anything looks to be better then what's there now.

If I tear it down and replace the cells I'll post up the work here. 

And as an aside, a high end RC battery charger / conditioner does WONDERS for Ni-Cad cells that look dead.  I made a modification so I could get half of the pack on the charger at a time and it has brought most of my Ni-Cad packs back to life.  Well, if you consider life being 5-10 minutes of 100% power before they fold, still better then not taking a charge at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 1 year later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Member Statistics

    17,225
    Total Members
    6,555
    Most Online
    JohnB
    Newest Member
    JohnB
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...