dwain

^^ I also LOVE the FV saw. It is surprising to me that the 18x2 saw from Makita isn't comparable in runtime, but then again the original version isn't brushless is it? I would have thought that a 9Ah FUEL Saw would compete on runtime for really light cutting, like melamine or 35mm studs. Can you confirm that it doesn't?

But only if you maintain the cable size. We just don't have the kind of data (and possibly expertise also) necessary to have this debate scientifically. Which is why I think real world tests are the way to go

By the way, oztooltalk is going to be doing a premium SDS comparison shortly. 18x2, 36v and 54v units. sds-plus and sds-max. should be good.

I've tested them against each other in a small way (triple hammer and DCD887 putting bugel screws into pine) and found them to go toe-to-toe. sometimes Dewalt won, Hitachi won probably a little more often. It wasn't super scientific (or like our proper comparisons).

I think there is a little bit of nuance to the whole runtime v power discussion too. - Total Wh matters a lot - The number of cells and the output capacity (amps) of those cells is VERY important - All cells will drain with less efficiency as they reach their upper-band temperatures - some motors are inherently more efficient than others - the size of the motor matters. a larger drill will have better efficiency for bigger tasks than a small drill. a small drill will have better efficiency for smaller holes. - voltage is a factor. higher voltage means thinner cables, but thicker insulation (for instance). I'm not sure how much a factor voltage is, but it is A factor. - the electronics and controls that limit the cells and tool play a large factor too My point being that it is difficult to know just from specs. Real world test across a variety of applications (e.g. 2x4 pine cuts, 2x10 sleepers and then ripping LVLs) is the only real way to know. Every manufacturer is going to choose the test that suits their tool best.

Two things: 1) unless you have a good reason for saying so, that's a pretty unfair thing to say. As I've previously explained, tool reviewers receive tools from manufacturers for review. That doesn't make us biased. If you were getting free tools from one company and not the others ... that would be cause for concern. Even if a reviewer is charging money for reviews (I'm not sure if any do), if they charge the same to all companies, they may still be able to do so without bias. 2) the reviewer/comparer of those saws is Michael Springer, and independant tool blogger who has been around a LONG time. I've met him personally at the recent Metabo tool factory in Germany. It was his 4th time there over the years! I can tell you that his tool knowledge is great, and he is a very practical guy who knows how to use tools. You may have some small or large level of disdain for reviewers, but think harder. Full time contractors don't have time to do such comparisons/reviews. So, if reviewers didn't do them, they wouldn't exist.

oh I have been to Dewalt and NPS and Metabo events. I've heard it all, and I'm a bit tired of marketing some days I don't hold Dewalt any lower or higher than anyone else. And yes, 20V Max is just as honest (actually more) than anyone claiming 12V.

Cheers Joe. I was referring to the fact that: 18v branding: Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, Dewalt (outside US), Hitachi, Ridgid 20v max branding: Dewalt (US), Black and Decker, Porter Cable. 10.8v branding: Dewalt (outside US), Bosch (until recently outside US) 12V branding: everyone else. Same goes for higher Voltages with OPE. It's all over the shop. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see what that has to do with anything. I've been on this forum contributing and expressing my opinions long before I started getting sent free tools. BTW, I may not have to buy them, but are they actually free when you have to put 6 hours into a review for them? I take a day off each week from my normal job to review tools, and often make less money on the tool day. One of the main reasons I review tool (apart from a love of them) is because I enjoy helping people understand them, and make informed choices (or just decide on a favorite). So yes, I will always be for forcing manufacturers to advertise their products accurately and in line with the rest of the industry. When you buy 5 quarts of oil (or Litres here), you expect 5 quarts don't you? I know I do. I'd be pissed if Castrol and Mobil decided to start selling 4.2 quarts of oil as 5 quarts...

Festool, for sure

I can't imagine the Flexvolt not blowing the Milwaukee out of the water for drilling (based on experience with the Milwaukee you are looking at and the SDS-Max FV). I guess Tug's experience doesn't like up with that? Specs don't tell the whole story remember.

Sick. sorry, I meant the inflator/deflator. https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/cordless/ryobi-18v-cordless-inflator-deflator/28209/

I have 18V platforms in Makita, Milwaukee, Bosch, Hitachi, Dewalt, Metabo, Hilti and AEG/Ridgid. Plus 12V platforms in Bosch and Milwaukee, 36V platforms in Hilti and Bosch and also Flexvolt. BUT .... I'm almost ready to buy a Ryobi kit cause I really want their glue gun and compressor

Yeah I meant Bosch Blue. I don't think you get the Bosch Blue tools in the US as early, or sometimes at all.

Sick.

Bosch also have great kickback protection. I agree with Sterc above that Metabo have easily the best clutch options and quality around. You can get a helluva lot of work done on their top clutch setting. I've personally tried to do a runtime test with 32mm auger bits while accidentally leaving it in clutch mode. Got about 10 holes done before it checked out.

D W makes some good sense. You don't HAVE to just pick one. In the US, availability is a bigger issue than here. You don't get nearly the ranges in Bosch, Metabo, Hitachi etc as much of the rest of the world has. If you have good access to Makita, they're highly worth considering. I think for working with timber, Makita and Dewalt cordless are top picks because: Makita - 5" ROS, Brushless router, jigsaw, planer Recip, circ saw, multi-tool and impact driver. Dewalt - Framing nailer, finish nailer, BL drills and impacts drivers, BL planer, FV circ saw, FV table saw, FV drop saw. Milwaukee can keep up with those with excellent drills, impacts, recip and circ saw, but not the others. As you can see, Makita are tops for finish work, Dewalt are tops for framing. Just my humble opinion.

lol, you had me for a second there.

huh?

As good as it gets. Seriously. This is why it's good to be a reviewer.

Many people don't understand that 20V MAX is actually the same as 18V nominal. For those that do, they realise it's probably the same stuff. But Watt Hours is a measure of total juice / gas tank / volume. There's no MAX volume and nominal volume, the amount of Wh in the battery is found by multiplying nominal voltage by the Ah. It's deceptive because 20V Max x 5Ah = 100 Wh is bullshit. It actually has 18V x 5Ah = 90Wh.

I don't know what available in the US, bu they certainly have a plenty of tools in Aus and Europe.

By which you mean, the same year as Bosch and a couple of years later than Makita? Now I'm just being argumentative. Or am I? No, I think I'm being indecisive?

haha, take that one tool lovers! I have not the faintest idea. Heard of Knightrider, no idea what KITT is