JerryNY

They wanted to make the world's first 12" miter but knew even with 2xbattery packs the runtime might still be a little underwhelming so they knew from the beginning it was going to be a plugin hybrid. I think the majority of these saws might never run off battery, or at most occasionally on battery. The only reason Dewalt bent over backwards to get to 60v and maintain compatibility with the 20's was so the motor could be run off the mains as well with a 2x60v setup reaching 120v...

Could be many reasons. Cost might be a factor; the multiple voltage circuitry might be complicated and add cost making it an even more costly and complicated to add he BT module, also it might have meant that they needed to make the BT module multi voltage too. They might not have confidence in BT right now as being a feature many really desire. I just think they already were introducing very new technology and didn't want to complicate the battery more than they needed and add extra cost to an already expensive battery. BT isn't critical to the new system working and they could always add it later if demand is there. Right now the 20/40/60v switching is the star of the show so why dilute the message with non critical add ons that don't really enhance power or runtime.

Well I agree somewhat but it's always nice to have the option for a bigger pack. But yeah I think the 9amp pack wasn't an accident for Milwaukee. It's intended purpose is for largish stationary (miter saw) and brutish two handed workhorses that are already heavy so the added bulk won't be noticeable like an SDS hammer, hole hang and maybe a grinder which can never have enough Ah's. They aren't intended to be used on a compact impact or other one handed tools. That being said Milwaukee's push into outdoor power tools was going to require either a new 40v platform OR a big ass 9 Ah pack. They chose the latter for simplicity and backwards compatibility. I think Dewalt approached the same problem from a different angle. They already had outdoor 40v packs and didn't want to share that with its regular power tools because they are generally too big and incompatible which would piss people off. They really needed a bigger pack for a 12" miter and 3x40v was going to be super awkward so they made the flexvolt system to get to the magic 120v with only two batteries. This is important because obviously it let them make the saw mains capable with that adapter and no matter how you slice it, no pun intended, a 12' saw running off battery is going to be a HUGE battery drainer. I suspect most of these saws will spend the majority of their life hooked up to an outlet anyway and that's ok. Brushless motors are great for this because a 120v brushless motor for all intents and purposes IS AN A/C MOTOR so besides maybe some extra line voltage filtering to smooth things out runs exactly the same on battery or A/C. (Personally I think the 60v part of their new system solely exists to get 120v out of two batteries) Hats off to a somewhat elegant solution from Dewalt. In some ways Milwaukees 9Ah strategy is simpler and more elegant and Dewalt's is much more complicated but elegant in other ways. It's all good, progress in the tech makes for better tools for all.

It's kinda crazy how these tool companies are pushing upmarket with their lights and it's pretty obvious Milwaukee and Dewalt are targeting large corporate accounts with many of them. They both must have some big market research that there is a big demand for these job site lights and maybe there're lighting safety requirements coming down the pike that they are trying to get ahead of.

It's all in good fun comparing back and forth with Dewalt fans but I wish Milwaukee would just SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY for the fuel miter!!!! I've been holding off on a badly needed miter for a year hoping they'd come out with one. The fact that it looks like a really nice 10" and they didn't just go through the motions and it has a great shadow line guide and an available 9Ah battery bundle is making me impatient!!!

Also Milwaukee's miter articulation must be pretty decent for a 10" according to toolguyd: There’s no compromise for going cordless on this saw. Unlike many cordless miter saws, this saw features a full 10″ blade spinning at 4000 RPM, no doubt thanks to its brushless motor. It can cut up to 6″ baseboard trim against the fence, and up to a 2×12 dimensional lumber flat against the table. All while weighing just 45 lbs, or 47 lbs with the 9.0Ah pack. According to Dewalts info on their new 12" cordless: Ultimate power flexibility providing the convenience of cordless with the performance of corded A powerful 120V brushless motor provides long runtime compared to brushed motors Integrated adjustment-free Cutline™ Blade Positioning System for accuracy and visibility High visibility bevel scale makes bevel angle adjustments accurate and easy Tall sliding fences support crown molding up to 7-1/2" nested and base molding up to 6-3/4" vertically against the fence. The 10" Milwaukee can cut almost as deep base against the fence as the Dewalt; 6" to 6-3/4". So also with some decent cuts per pack performance the m18 fuel miter looks pretty competitive all around. That being said I don't deny Dewalts miters are anything but excellent either. Dewalts doesn't make too many crappy saws...

Also according to toolguyd: With a High Demand 9.0Ah battery pack, this saw can make up to 400 cuts in 3-1/2″ baseboard trim, 300 cuts through 2x4s, or 150 cuts in 2×12 lumber. .... So the cute photo of the massive Dewalt miter showing 244 cuts in 2x4's isn't all that impressive, about 20% less. Also Dewalts site lists "UP TO 289 CUTS PER CHARGE IN 3-1/4" BASE**" .... The new m18 fuel does 400 cuts! How can Dewalt, King of miters, come out with a new line of 60v-120v battery powered saws that do less work than an 18v Milwaukee ? ? Seriously though the big disadvantage of their flex voltage packs is you double the voltage you half the amp hours; you triple the voltage and you cut the amp hours by two thirds. It's just physics...

Well Milwaukee does the xxx# of cuts in 2x4's thing in their shows too but that's more applicable to a chop saw workload than a miter saw I would guess. I don't work in construction, just a DIY, but do people use miter saws constantly cut after cut non-stop? I mean it seems like more of a precision tool where you cut measure and check again and then cut again after some time. The important things seem to be capacity, you need a saw that can actually cut wood/trim as big as you need and power to cut the stock you want to use. 200+ pine 2x4's is nice and all but that would be like cutting 2x4's three times a minute for two straight hours plus.

Yeah the new miters look really nice from Dewalt but I still just want the new M18fuel one. It's fine for what I want and Milwaukee stole the best idea from Dewalt anyway, the shadow line guide ?

I be like I can keep using all my batteries on the new m18 saw and use the new 9Ah on all my old tools too without having to invest in a new platform! ? Also I think that photo is the old 8.5" miter sold in the EU and never sold here in the US, not the new fuel one.

Some really interesting stuff from Dewalt but not sure how they're going to handle some things. If you double the voltage of a battery pack you halve its Ah rating, simple physics. So a 20v 5Ah pack would become a 40v 2.5Ah. There's a reason ope packs are so large to begin with. In theory a 20v 5Ah pack and a 40v 2.5Ah do the same exact amount of work because the energy stored in the pack is the same. While it is interesting and cool what Dewalts done I'm not sure they've over complicated their whole platform with introducing a new thing. It should be interesting to see what all these tools can do though. It seems like it's been a while since they've dumped an assload of new stuff all at once for the market to digest so hats off to them.

Yeah I love my Ti leatherman. Mine looks slightly different though:

Yeah I can see the new M18 lights as lacking competition but then again lots of those lights are nowhere near targeted at a consumer or even prosumer. They look purely made to milk the corporate sales. Even that wacky dual head light for lineman Dan showed on periscope was meant 100% for sales to utilities and gonna cost $500 I bet. The whole one key for lights makes much more sense in that arena. A lot of the new lights are pretty cool but I can't pretend I even need one or would want to spend that much on lights but I'm not even close to their target demo. I do like he new black m12 and would actually find it useful though. Yes and no. LED's have come WAY down in price the last decade but you still need a controller, heat sink and other things compared to a dumb old incandescent. Even if it's just a dollar in parts more per unit that's $1million per million units. It adds up. I was just saying I think they started realizing people and Corp buyers actually like the lights enough to target them much further up market and develop more varieties of lights. They've had tool battery based lights for decades now but they are pushing stick lights, spots, lanterns, work lights etc. more and more in recent years.

Maybe we need a Leatherman thread ?

True but I think Milwaukee is looking at their lights as competing with other mid to high end light manufactures, not other tool companies. Traditionally lights from tool companies have been add-ons to round out combo kits so they can claim "Five Tools" when it's really four + some crappy light. Somewhere along the way tool companies realized people liked even the crappy lights because they used the same largish power packs as the tool and solved the biggest light problem i.e. Always being sure you have a charged battery at hand. They have gotten much better from all manufacturers. Look no further than Ryobi with their excellent dual power flood and their lantern that both cost peanuts for what you get. Milwaukee doesn't want to compete with that. This new black M12 light is almost a direct competitor to a Maglite rechargeable which runs about $100 retail, albeit with batteries included. The Maglite doesn't have a charge indicator afaik and when it dies you have to put it on a cradle to charge and can't keep using it. The M12 lets you swap a new battery pack and has significantly more lumens too. I think for what it is it isn't too badly priced for a quality light with a good warranty, especially if you already have a mess of m12 batts...

Yup: here's mine:

Love my Ti Stiletto: its a decent size for big stuff and hits like a big hammer but is light enough you can choke up and use it for smaller stuff too. I have a titanium fetish...

You're in luck then... you're paying $99 for no battery at all. ? The $150 kit comes with a charger and a 1.5. You can buy two packs of bare batteries for like 60-100 I think. I have a pair of 2.0 s that came with a hacksawzall kit last year I got for free buying a fuel drill driver kit and picked up a two pack of the larger 3.0 packs last year for $79 on sale.

That and Milwaukee's warranty is pretty good...

What's the weight difference between the two?

Yeah I think the guy had it on Craigslist under "mantel" instead of "mantle" so he got little interest because normal searches wouldn't show it ? It wasn't the guys fault entirely because the original tag in the back from 1923 spelled it that way!! I love the warning about the dry plaster. The stone guy used a laser temples ting system and got that hearth perfect to the contours of the firebox and I pulled the old cinder chute it if the original bottom and has him circa hole to drop it in to make it look like it's always been there. Ps- the table was more about cellebrating a victory over my sweet gum tree. ( anyone who knows them and their crazy spikey balls knows what Im talking about!) I still can't believe the branch taken down was like 40 ft horizontal and 20" in diameter.

Their led lights have always been on the high end of tool company prices for similar products. The same with tools; they never have been that cheap but they do tend to have free battery or an accessory bare tool promotion. If you buy full freight it can be a lot of money but if you play your cards right you can get some nice stuff thrown in too.

During my remodel I found a fireplace hidden behind drywall and located a beautiful chestnut mantle surround on Craigslist for $150, guy was nuts - it's worth 10x's that around here in NY metro area. I had a leathered slate mantle top and hearth fabricated by the guys doing my kitchen stone counters and backslash. They had this great leathered slate smallish slab on sale for $9 /ft^2 and I asked for the remnants. They brought what looked like a table top along because the fireplace didn't use a whole lot: Fast forward to today and my tree guy cut down a 20" branch from a sweet gum tree that looked like it was going to crush my garage. I used some of the logs to make a table. I made a support frame out of pressure treated lumber and lagged it to the stumps and going to make benches in a similar way:

Honestly it's prob a wash unless you really have a preference for right or left blade or need the extra depth or cut at angles a lot where more depth always helps. That being said blade availability is nicer for a 7 1/4 and always will. Case in point: I was on the pro checkout line at HD yesterday and looked down and saw Diablo's new track tooth 7 1/4" blades on sale for 2 for $10 on a flyer. I looked 3 feet over and there was a box of the new ones right there. That won't really happen with 6 1/2 blades because you'll prob need to wait longer for new blades and they won't be the subject of sales like that as often because they aren't made in volume like the far more common 7 1/4. Not the end all be all but it's nice knowing you have the selection, price and availability always on your side... BTW- those new blades were cutting wet pressure treated lumber like butter ?

It's a small miracle they stayed on there lol