Have you guys seen or used such a woodworking machine

[rdst_1]

Hi guys,

So as I posted in my Intro thread, I am from India.

In India, nearly 99% of the woodwork done when building a house (mainly window frames and doors as structure is usually made of bricks and cement) is done on these 8-in-1 woodworking machines.

http://gspaik.com/MultipurposeWoodworkingmachine8in1.html

It is a Jointer, Planer/Thicknesser, Table Saw, Rebater in one with some other functions as well. The machine runs on a 3HP/1440RPM motor.

So halfway through building our house, I had to let the contractor go as his work wasn't upto our standards. I've decided to tackle the rest myself with the help of a seasoned wood worker who will be working at a fixed daily wage. I will most likely be purchasing a used machine like the above one as they are the only one available at a decent price. Such a machine is available for around $700 brand new. In comparison a portable Bosch Table Saw costs the same.

Let me know your thoughts on the viability of using such machines. I probably won't have a choice to use something else, but would you guys ever consider using such a machine. One can even buy a version with a bandsaw attachment for around $1000.

[DR99]

All in one machines seem to be a big compromise, but most of use have zero experience with anything like the unit you linked to. I don't think it would pass American safety regulations. We don't even get the mitersaw/table saw units they sell in Europe. In the USA the idea seems to be affordable single task tools you can get a Portable Bosch Table saw for around $329 in the usa.

[rdst_1]

I am gonna link some videos so you guys can get a better idea about the capabilities of such machines.
Even I agree that single operation machines might be more accurate but for people who might have space issues, such machines could be real life savers.

https://youtu.be/bwA6koaizT0

[khariV]

I'm not going to lie, the video of the guys using it as a table saw made me want to look away.  That spinning blade sticking that far up out of the table with no riving knife and people's fingers right up next to the blade pushing wood is the stuff of my nightmares.  I fully admit that I'm a wimp about table saws and won't own one until I can have space and money for a SawStop, but that's borderline horrifying.

[DR99]

It's pretty impressive how many tools they put on that little machine though

[SetBuilder]

I would love to own a Felder jointer / planer combo, buy way out of my price range.

http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/products/jointer–planers.html

[rdst_1]

I'm not going to lie, the video of the guys using it as a table saw made me want to look away.  That spinning blade sticking that far up out of the table with no riving knife and people's fingers right up next to the blade pushing wood is the stuff of my nightmares.  I fully admit that I'm a wimp about table saws and won't own one until I can have space and money for a SawStop, but that's borderline horrifying.

I completely agree mate. The problem is, no one worries about safety issues in India. The guys who work are usually uneducated. I will be looking for models with riving knife. The machine in the first video does have anti-kickback for the planer. And their machines are more properly built. I will also be making and using all sorts of jigs that help in boosting safety while working with a table saw.

It's pretty impressive how many tools they put on that little machine though

If they would incorporate basic safety measures, I believe these machines could be quite popular in US as well. You can work in a small space and not have to spend a lot on different machines either.

[Milwaukee_man_stan]

11 hours ago, khariV said:

I'm not going to lie, the video of the guys using it as a table saw made me want to look away.  That spinning blade sticking that far up out of the table with no riving knife and people's fingers right up next to the blade pushing wood is the stuff of my nightmares.  I fully admit that I'm a wimp about table saws and won't own one until I can have space and money for a SawStop, but that's borderline horrifying.

I agree sometimes it doesn't hurt to save 5 mins in safety, because that 5 mins in safety might save several months of not getting that paycheck or even your life.

[DR99]

We have a similar idea of an all in one setup its sold by a company called Shop Smith but its ridiculously expensive. It costs multiple thousands of dollars

[ChrisK]

Clearly different tool uses from one country to the next! Here in the USA they have the incorporated Jointer planer units but they don't have too much popularity because though it does both jobs, it doesn't do either overly well in a shop. Like Jason said we have the Shopsmith tools, my father in law has one, but they try really hard to do multiple things at the same time. The benefit to these machines is clearly cost for one machine as opposed to three or four machines and Jason pointed out something to as far as safety regulations. We used to have radial arm saws. They were considered the best machine for performing multiple functions....cross cutting, ripping, dados and tenoning. Heck some even could route. But then came accidents and the Feds put all sorts of safety regulations on the manufacturing of and usage of in a construction capacity and now you can nary find what used to be the most popular woodworking tool in the USA! Anyways, I digress. I haven't seen any tools like that since the year before last when they had several steam powered woodworking tools at the Fair.

[rdst_1]

So guys I hope you don't mind me taking the thread in a slightly different direction and try and learn more about how to maintain safety while working.

I am a complete newbie i.e. I have never worked with wood before and neither have had any training. I have however, had success in the past, learning new skills by doing research and discussing it on forums much like this. Of course nothing can beat proper training under a master, but that just isn't possible in my case.

So, from whatever I have read so far, I have come to the conclusion that the most dangerous aspect of woodworking is due to the fact that one's hand can get close the running blade while working. I have seen various solutions for that in the form of simple push blocks to expensive jigs like the GRR Ripper.

So correct me if I am wrong, but from what it seems to me, ( I have no experience yet, so I could be completely wrong) is that we use hands to provide a downforce on the piece of wood we are working on.

Now, again, my observation depends on my above understanding) , but can't we replace our hands with something else to provide the downforce like an appropriate weight which provides similar downforce.
Is there an estimated down force that is recommended or has been calculated or is it all left to intuition?

[KnarlyCarl]

5 hours ago, rdst_1 said:

So guys I hope you don't mind me taking the thread in a slightly different direction and try and learn more about how to maintain safety while working.

I am a complete newbie i.e. I have never worked with wood before and neither have had any training. I have however, had success in the past, learning new skills by doing research and discussing it on forums much like this. Of course nothing can beat proper training under a master, but that just isn't possible in my case.

So, from whatever I have read so far, I have come to the conclusion that the most dangerous aspect of woodworking is due to the fact that one's hand can get close the running blade while working. I have seen various solutions for that in the form of simple push blocks to expensive jigs like the GRR Ripper.

So correct me if I am wrong, but from what it seems to me, ( I have no experience yet, so I could be completely wrong) is that we use hands to provide a downforce on the piece of wood we are working on.

Now, again, my observation depends on my above understanding) , but can't we replace our hands with something else to provide the downforce like an appropriate weight which provides similar downforce.
Is there an estimated down force that is recommended or has been calculated or is it all left to intuition?

 

Intuition and experience...

 

A planer/thicknesser provides the push with the feed rollers, a drum sander has a conveyor to move the wood through the machine, but everything else requires force from the user, with typical shop equipment.  You can get the feather boards to apply down pressure, as well as side pressure against the fence of the tablesaw, for example.

 

You can also make a sled to go on a tablesaw and clamps to hold the piece on the sled, as you apply pressure to feed the sled through, keeping a safer distance from the blade.

 

 

 

[JMG]

Generally,in woodworking, much is left to intuition and experience. Learning the trade is not as straight forward as it used to be when there were structured apprenticeship programs, or public school shop classes. Properly designed push blocks go a long way to saving extremities when using shop tools, but if you wish to take hands out of the equation, you need to add feed mechanisms. A stock feeder added to a table saw is one example, but they are not cheap and work best on single use tool designs.

[Milwaukee_man_stan]

7 hours ago, rdst_1 said:

So guys I hope you don't mind me taking the thread in a slightly different direction and try and learn more about how to maintain safety while working.

I am a complete newbie i.e. I have never worked with wood before and neither have had any training. I have however, had success in the past, learning new skills by doing research and discussing it on forums much like this. Of course nothing can beat proper training under a master, but that just isn't possible in my case.

So, from whatever I have read so far, I have come to the conclusion that the most dangerous aspect of woodworking is due to the fact that one's hand can get close the running blade while working. I have seen various solutions for that in the form of simple push blocks to expensive jigs like the GRR Ripper.

So correct me if I am wrong, but from what it seems to me, ( I have no experience yet, so I could be completely wrong) is that we use hands to provide a downforce on the piece of wood we are working on.

Now, again, my observation depends on my above understanding) , but can't we replace our hands with something else to provide the downforce like an appropriate weight which provides similar downforce.
Is there an estimated down force that is recommended or has been calculated or is it all left to intuition?

Well what I would recommend is do what your instincts tell you to do...

Safety is never hard to learn of course for others they had to learn the hard way by losing a few fingers but you can learn simply by using your conscience nothing better than using the old noddle to stay safe.

[rdst_1]

Adding a feed mechanism might be more cumbersome and hence expensive.
What I had in mind was to incorporate clamps in the push blocks so that they can be easily clamped and removed from the stock. A featherboard would provide with the necessary side force. Adding appropriate weight on top of the blocks according to the machine they are being used on to provide the necessary downforce.
To remove the human element from the equation, I would like to implement a pulling mechanism that pulls the stock across the blade. I was thinking of using a motor (set at the feed rate of the machine) to pull the stock with the help of a chain and use pulleys to keep the pulling system compact.

I would love to hear what you guys think of such a solution and what issues could hinder it's implementation in a work environment.

[Jronman]

On 1/12/2017 at 9:35 PM, khariV said:

I'm not going to lie, the video of the guys using it as a table saw made me want to look away.  That spinning blade sticking that far up out of the table with no riving knife and people's fingers right up next to the blade pushing wood is the stuff of my nightmares.  I fully admit that I'm a wimp about table saws and won't own one until I can have space and money for a SawStop, but that's borderline horrifying.

could try a grr-riper best solution I have seen for pushing material through a table saw. hands may be above the blade but as long as they are holding on to the Grr-riper they won't touch the blade as long as it is being used as intend.

[Wally13]

That is a neat concept for a multi use tool platform. Although highly dangerous to operate, tools like this are invaluable. Here in the US, the closest thing we have to such a thing is the Shopsmith. See link below.

http://www.shopsmith.com/mark7site/index.htm

Its a great tool to have for anyone with a shop. It does a great job for its design. Downside is that it is terribly expensive. You can buy older used models for 1/4 the price. I personally w ould love to have one in my garage/shop.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[BMack37]

I hope this isn't offensive to you but I don't trust tools from India, the hand tools I've seen from India have had the softest metal I've ever seen. I'd be really weary of a power tool from India...that being said, it might work for your purpose but lack longevity, safety is something I would strongly consider.

[khariV]

19 hours ago, Jronman said:

could try a grr-riper best solution I have seen for pushing material through a table saw. hands may be above the blade but as long as they are holding on to the Grr-riper they won't touch the blade as long as it is being used as intend.

 

I've actually got a Grr-ripper that I use on a router table. In theory I know that table saws can be used safely with the blade guard in place. To be honest, until I have sufficient shop floor space to walk around a cabinet saw and maneuver sheet goods, there isn't enough added functionality that I'd get with a contractor saw that would make it worth the risk of bumping into something and losing a finger or worse. 

[Nicholan]

When you're ready to buy a new woodworking machine, there are a few things you should consider. The first and most important factor is price. Devices of this type typically cost $2,000 or more. You can get a good deal on a used one, especially if it's 60 years old or less. If you live in a small town and can't bring yourself to spend more than $500 on a new machine, that's fine. Search for it on kitmondo.com. I also got one from there. It was in excellent condition. I am delighted that I chose this site and saved a lot of money.