Hugh Jass Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I think you're all wrong at this point, freaking Ryobi is innovating the 18v segment more than M and D combined at the rate they've been going. If trajectories continue not only will they have the largest lineup, the most diverse lineup, but also increased quality of tools and components. Years ago they were a joke but I give them all the credit for being capable of leading the class within 5 years if they keep pushing. Homeowners outnumber contractors what, thousands to 1? Their profit margins are probably awful being so affordable but they're going to crush it on volume because of market saturation. They have no bottleneck other than reputation, which is growing better every day. That said Dewalt was brilliant by moving to 60/120v because they're in a class of their own and everyone else is ignoring it publically. But the lack of competition in the class also means a lot of coasting for Dewalt (like the 60v table saw, common man, clear milking of the cow here and the recip is basic af. No hook, no adjustable shoe, no advanced blade action options or AVT, gtfo) making a slow innovator even slower. They should be moving in for the kill now. Innovate. Make the highest quality tools for your premium price before someone pulls out the rug from beneath your feet. There's a plethora of contractors waiting for someone to lead the industry clearly for them to convert from cords to cordless completely and Dewalt is the only one in position for widespread adoption with the ability to run virtually every tool on a job cordless. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 @Hugh Jass what about the table saw is milking? The blade being smaller than 10"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Will/can the competition follow DeWalt's lead? Could Milwaukee release their own version of Flexvolt under the name "Multivolt"? (Perhaps I should register that name idea?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I'd imagine FlexVolt has patents out the ass, so either Dewalt decides to license the tech to Milwaukee for a fortune, Milwaukee has to come up with a compromised solution to do a similar action, or Milwaukee waits years for parents to expire. I don't foresee the first option being the one we see happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Bremon said: @Hugh Jass what about the table saw is milking? The blade being smaller than 10"? Not so much as the simultaneous release of the 790 which is 120v. How do you justify producing a single 120v tool when it's arguably their most important product line going forward? Cordless now is only limited by the batteries that power them which will begin to have advantages over corded tools entirely through amperage. 60v table saw makes just as little sense as a ~8in blade. They should have pushed a 120v table saw from the get-go. It's completely illogical, especially now that they've killed the 60v mains adapter. It's inferior in every way. Now they're going to make a 10 in 120v to double dip the segment with buyer's remorse which is going to kick everyone's ass...but why not already have done that? Milking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 They did the same thing with the 7 1/4in miter saw. Now I have nothing to complain about with that unit other than the light, but it was obvious from the moment of release it was a double dip product having shipped with brushes when practically nothing else was. There's no logical argument for it IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 From what I know OSHA has new standards re: table saws for table size vs blade size. The 60v FlexVolt was meant to be a 10", basically a cordless 7480. New standards meant they could delay the product or switch blade size. I'm happy to have a table saw that's fairly portable and still does everything I need of it. The 10" 120v Max hybrid version is going to be a cordless version of the 7491RS basically. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 That's the table I have and it's amazing, I'll be jealous of everyone that has the cordless versions of the most expensive tools I own, lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SetBuilder Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 19 hours ago, Jronman said: From what I have heard dual battery m18 miter saw is a thing. Someone once posted about it here, saying a friend saw it. But no link or pic was ever produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Bremon said: I'd imagine FlexVolt has patents out the ass, so either Dewalt decides to license the tech to Milwaukee for a fortune, Milwaukee has to come up with a compromised solution to do a similar action, or Milwaukee waits years for parents to expire. I don't foresee the first option being the one we see happen. Not sure there's much they can patent other than the name, look at how many 18 Volt batteries there are on the market, all doing the same thing with just minor variations on how they hook up to the tool. PCs across the globe all do the same thing, but made in different factories. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jronman Posted June 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, SetBuilder said: Someone once posted about it here, saying a friend saw it. But no link or pic was ever produced. i posted awhile back guys at work claimed to have tested one but that was it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Tug said: Not sure there's much they can patent other than the name, look at how many 18 Volt batteries there are on the market, all doing the same thing with just minor variations on how they hook up to the tool. PCs across the globe all do the same thing, but made in different factories. Time will tell. I would imagine several aspects of the mechanical switching action and the way the wiring is done in series and parallel is quite patentable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jronman Posted June 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I don't know how big the 7491RS table saw is but it wouldn't mind seeing a saw more on the lines of the Ridgid or Delta Hybrid saws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jronman Posted June 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I see Milwaukee's next move to be x2 style and Onekey batteries then I see them being first to come out with solid state batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 The 7491 is 90lbs on its stand and has a 32.5" rip. It's a very capable saw. Are solid state batteries anything more than a theory at the moment? I remember reading that university paper on them ages ago but they didn't seem anywhere near ready for prime time. Most of my M18 batteries have a OneKey wifi symbol on them already; I imagine the app just needs an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jronman Posted June 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 36 minutes ago, Bremon said: The 7491 is 90lbs on its stand and has a 32.5" rip. It's a very capable saw. Are solid state batteries anything more than a theory at the moment? I remember reading that university paper on them ages ago but they didn't seem anywhere near ready for prime time. Most of my M18 batteries have a OneKey wifi symbol on them already; I imagine the app just needs an update. they aren't far away. If anything its in the prototype stage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Bremon said: I would imagine several aspects of the mechanical switching action and the way the wiring is done in series and parallel is quite patentable. AVE did a teardown of a flexvolt, I'm sure he found it was more electronic than mechanical, but I'll have to watch it again to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 There's a physical aspect to it, that's how the shipping cap works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jronman Posted June 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 well there are 2 tabs on the battery that get pushed to switch the voltage I think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggie Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I know I wasn't on board with flexvolt when it first came out because to me it's another battery platform. But after seeing the advantages of having more power I think they are alright with big tools. So my question is do people actually try to use the flexvolt battery across both the 20v and 60v lines. Meaning is there a real world advantage to having it be flexible or was it just a way of making people more open to the switch. To me I want the big batteries on the big tools and the small batteries on the small tools which pretty much means two battery platforms with compatible chargers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Biggie said: I know I wasn't on board with flexvolt when it first came out because to me it's another battery platform. But after seeing the advantages of having more power I think they are alright with big tools. So my question is do people actually try to use the flexvolt battery across both the 20v and 60v lines. Meaning is there a real world advantage to having it be flexible or was it just a way of making people more open to the switch. To me I want the big batteries on the big tools and the small batteries on the small tools which pretty much means two battery platforms with compatible chargers. On the impact I definitely prefer a slim pack, but on the 996 combi drill I'm quite happy to use a flexvolt pack, it doesn't ruin the feeling of the drill and you get more runtime. The cells are under no strain either because you've got three cells paralleled up and sharing the load. Flexvolt is no gimmick in my book, in terms of cordless tools it's the best thing since sliced bread! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, Biggie said: I know I wasn't on board with flexvolt when it first came out because to me it's another battery platform. But after seeing the advantages of having more power I think they are alright with big tools. So my question is do people actually try to use the flexvolt battery across both the 20v and 60v lines. Meaning is there a real world advantage to having it be flexible or was it just a way of making people more open to the switch. To me I want the big batteries on the big tools and the small batteries on the small tools which pretty much means two battery platforms with compatible chargers. For the 20v eaters (grinder, blower, saws, SDS's, etc...) you have the runtime and power advantage. 9ah is a hell of a lot of battery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Plenty of 20v tools it's useful on. Otherwise what the hell is the point of the Milwaukee HD9.0 ?. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggie Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 40 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said: For the 20v eaters (grinder, blower, saws, SDS's, etc...) you have the runtime and power advantage. 9ah is a hell of a lot of battery. Which is an advantage, making switching over easier because you can make the switch gradually using your current 20v tools. But aren't those tools that as you wear them out and replace them, you'll replace them with 60v tools which will eventually leave you with small batteries for your 20v tools and large batteries for your 60v tools. I know there are some exceptions such as lighting which dewalt is somewhat lacking in right now, but I'm just saying in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overanalyze Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just give me that new 20v 7-1/4 saw! @2-9/16th cutting depth I can finally quit using our beastly 10-1/4" Milwaukee for cutting i-joist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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