tpamatmat Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 8 hours ago, Pouet said: Well I'm not saying it's not BS but in order to have the same runtime as a 40V battery, a 60V battery on a 60v tool would need to be bigger. The tool would probably be bigger as well. This may not be practical for professional users but ok for occasional users. At the same time, 20V is probably too low a voltage for outdoor tools, hence the 40v platform. The Echo 58V 4.0ah battery pack weighs slightly less than the DeWalt 40V 7.5ah battery pack. Echo's pack uses 2500mah 18650's, configuring it with 20700 3000mah cells would result in a battery pack with similar run times(due to increased battery capacity/motor efficiency) and minimal weight gain. 7 hours ago, Pouet said: Because the higher the voltage applied on a motor is, the higher the magnetic field intensity is. If the magnetic field is too strong for your core (the rotor in the case of a motor), you end up in saturation territory which usually results in your motor getting destroyed. In order to increase the capacity of your motor to handle bigger magnetic fields, you need to increase the size of the rotor which result in a bigger and heavier motor. The same goes with transformer by the way. So to increase the voltage, you must increase the motor size. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation_(magnetic) You do not have to increase the motor size every time you increase the voltage. Only when the increase in voltage saturates the motor. Do you know that the increase from 40V to 60V on the DeWalt 40V brushless motors saturates them? In the RC world it is often shown that you can go with a smaller motor at higher voltage. RC is all about weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpamatmat Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Hugh Jass said: The 60v line is not targeted to be 60v at all, it's to reach 120v in series with only 2 batteries (40v would need 3). Logically it's the only reasonable solution to overcoming the mains power bottleneck of 120v 20amp that this system is destined to do eventually. Batteries are the future for all power tools that can utilize extra amperage, there really is no limit to potential with continued improvements across the board. Perfectly reasonable to suggest that in the near future for instance we'll have cordless demo breakers with twice the power of one you'd plug into the wall, or vacuums with more suction than all the Kardashians combined. I do not doubt you Hugh, that may very well be their end game but as of today they have a 60V line. Targeted or not, its ninety percent of their FV tools and their whole OPE market. So don't not support it just because you want to protect your 40V line. Look, all I want is for DeWalt to produce a trimmer that beats my neighbors Echo. He has a bigger house, his lawn is always immaculate and his kids get straight A's. God help me if they go to Med school, i'll never hear the end of it. So for the love of god DeWalt, a larger battery please so I can wipe that smug smile off my neighbors face 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 I don't have any 40v tools nor would I buy any, I live on an island that has very little grass, and even if I did, I wouldn't buy it anyway because that's designed for commercial use. Sounds to me like you need to buy an Echo so you and your neighbor can have races to see who's the dominant male, winner takes the wives, loser takes the kids. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said: I don't have any 40v tools nor would I buy any, I live on an island that has very little grass, and even if I did, I wouldn't buy it anyway because that's designed for commercial use. Sounds to me like you need to buy an Echo so you and your neighbor can have races to see who's the dominant male, winner takes the wives, loser takes the kids. I'm with you for right now on the 40v stuff though....I am thinking about starting some small time lawn care when I retire and may consider that lineup. Right now I've got the 20v hedge trimmer and it is awesome. Coupled with the 60v battery it doesn't die. This will segway into the weed whacker next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pouet Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 10 hours ago, tpamatmat said: The Echo 58V 4.0ah battery pack weighs slightly less than the DeWalt 40V 7.5ah battery pack. Echo's pack uses 2500mah 18650's, configuring it with 20700 3000mah cells would result in a battery pack with similar run times(due to increased battery capacity/motor efficiency) and minimal weight gain. Yeah it's possible but it may cost more (I don't know the different cell prices) and it's hard to tell at which load which motor is more efficient. You need to check the data sheets and do some simulation. I'm not saying their statement is not bullshit, just saying that there could be real engineering reasons to not dump the 40V line. 10 hours ago, tpamatmat said: You do not have to increase the motor size every time you increase the voltage. Only when the increase in voltage saturates the motor. Do you know that the increase from 40V to 60V on the DeWalt 40V brushless motors saturates them? In the RC world it is often shown that you can go with a smaller motor at higher voltage. RC is all about weight. Agreed. That's why I said it may increase. You can also use better material I suppose with better magnetic permeability but it may cost more. It's really hard to tell without all the data so that's why I'm trying to keep an open mind. I may be too optimistic :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpamatmat Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 5 hours ago, Hugh Jass said: Sounds to me like you need to buy an Echo so you and your neighbor can have races to see who's the dominant male, winner takes the wives, loser takes the kids. Well I have the smaller yard so I would definitely finish first, also guess who has the most tools 42 minutes ago, Pouet said: Yeah it's possible but it may cost more (I don't know the different cell prices) and it's hard to tell at which load which motor is more efficient. You need to check the data sheets and do some simulation. I'm not saying their statement is not bullshit, just saying that there could be real engineering reasons to not dump the 40V line. Could be, were not engineers (i'm not anyway) and I am sure there are some very bright guys at DeWalt. We can only hope that their decisions are based on engineering and not marketing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jronman Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 On 2/12/2017 at 6:26 PM, JimboS1ice said: Like flexvolt ope? You really need three voltages of string trimmers? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk yes @BMack37 @Bremon guys common we can all agree Black and Decker is best haha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Jronman said: yes @BMack37 @Bremon guys common we can all agree Black and Decker is best haha Everyone knows Orange is perfection. Stihl, Husqvarna, Black&Decker. We aren't deliberating over expensive boutique brands here @Jronman lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jronman Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 40v has more ope in the lineup than 60v or 20v. Backpack blower, pole hedge clippers (apparently not out yet?), 6 bay smart charger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboS1ice Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 I do not doubt you Hugh, that may very well be their end game but as of today they have a 60V line. Targeted or not, its ninety percent of their FV tools and their whole OPE market. So don't not support it just because you want to protect your 40V line. Look, all I want is for DeWalt to produce a trimmer that beats my neighbors Echo. He has a bigger house, his lawn is always immaculate and his kids get straight A's. God help me if they go to Med school, i'll never hear the end of it. So for the love of god DeWalt, a larger battery please so I can wipe that smug smile off my neighbors face [emoji4]Just go get an ego bro and you can trim yours and his lawn and still have time to trim his wives hedges [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] sorry I had toSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpamatmat Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, JimboS1ice said: Just go get an ego bro and you can trim yours and his lawn and still have time to trim his wives hedges sorry I had to Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Hahahaha....very funny, now about those hedges... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Get her some hedges...bitches love hedges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnarlyCarl Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 On 2/14/2017 at 8:34 AM, Hugh Jass said: I don't have any 40v tools nor would I buy any, I live on an island that has very little grass, and even if I did, I wouldn't buy it anyway because that's designed for commercial use. Sounds to me like you need to buy an Echo so you and your neighbor can have races to see who's the dominant male, winner takes the wives, loser takes the kids. ...LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpamatmat Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 hours ago, KnarlyCarl said: ...LOL LOL...haven't seen that one in awhile. We made that video ages ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrich1 Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 I'll give DeWalt credit for coming out with a cordless track sawSent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jronman Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 @rrich1 Didn't they have a stick pack 18v track saw? Festool also has a dual battery track saw that can run with either 1 or 2 batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overanalyze Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 [mention=50861]rrich1[/mention] Didn't they have a stick pack 18v track saw? Festool also has a dual battery track saw that can run with either 1 or 2 batteries.They did have a stick style for a bit overseas. Every once in awhile one shows up on Ebay UK. I tried to get one a couple times but no one would ship it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheng Liu Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 2/12/2017 at 8:28 AM, Bremon said: It seems brand new designs and oddball stuff usually goes to the junk brands first to have kinks ironed out rather than have egg on the face of the premium brands a la 23gauge Makita pinner. That may be true, but Ryobi has been making some of those "oddball" tools successfully for years and others still haven't. One example is the tire inflator. I have owned it for close to four years now, it has worked great every time I have used it and I really can't see any practical way to make it much better. Thus far, as far as I know; Ryobi is the only company that makes one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 @Cheng Liu I've been preaching the need for inflators for years. Milwaukee doesn't feel they are "professional" enough to make a red version of, despite trucks and trailers having tires that work best when they are properly inflated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheng Liu Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 @Bremon Some decisions that companies make are nothing short of baffling to me. It's like how Ryobi has yet to re-release a cordless shop vac despite the obvious demand for one. That is proven by the fact that they made one many years ago. It wasn't particularly successful because the batteries of that time were not nearly as good as they are now. Now that vac, long discontinued and rare is fetching high prices on-line when one appears at all (since Ryobi tools of the past are still compatible with the newest Ryobi batteries). All they would need to do is take the Milwaukee one and change the housing from red and black to lime green and charcoal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpamatmat Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 14 hours ago, Cheng Liu said: @Bremon Some decisions that companies make are nothing short of baffling to me. It's like how Ryobi has yet to re-release a cordless shop vac despite the obvious demand for one. That is proven by the fact that they made one many years ago. It wasn't particularly successful because the batteries of that time were not nearly as good as they are now. Now that vac, long discontinued and rare is fetching high prices on-line when one appears at all (since Ryobi tools of the past are still compatible with the newest Ryobi batteries). All they would need to do is take the Milwaukee one and change the housing from red and black to lime green and charcoal. It would be nice if Ryobi or Milwaukee put out brushless version of that shop vac. I also wouldn't mind seeing a brushless DeWalt Flex Volt version, at 60V it would really suck(in a good way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fm2176 Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 On 2/24/2017 at 2:19 PM, Cheng Liu said: That may be true, but Ryobi has been making some of those "oddball" tools successfully for years and others still haven't. One example is the tire inflator. I have owned it for close to four years now, it has worked great every time I have used it and I really can't see any practical way to make it much better. Thus far, as far as I know; Ryobi is the only company that makes one. Porter Cable made a great inflator for their 18v line. It can top off all of my truck's tires (about 3-4 psi each) with one of the puny 1.3 Ah batteries that was standard for that line. If the battery dies, it also has a cigarette lighter cord. After putting a lot of money into DeWalt and having started to buy a few Fuel tools, I have to admit that I'm eying the Ryobi inflator to replace the PC when it finally quits working. If one came out in Yellow or maybe Red first, though, I wouldn't look twice at the Ryobi. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwain Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 On 2/17/2017 at 2:48 PM, KnarlyCarl said: ...LOL Dang it KnarlyCarl, I just lost an hour of my life... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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