JMG Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 It is always curious when a user's content vanishes en masse, whether it be from being placed in Coventry (a form of moderation review), self immolation, requested immolation, or the worst possible, IMO, overly aggressive moderation on the part of those in control. Whatever the reason or reasons, even if it is a simple glitch, it makes for some strange reading in older threads where comments seem to be disjointed due to addressing the ghost in question... One rule for response here: Read the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 I don't think it's over aggressive moderation. But then again, I might be a little biased As far as ghost members, yeah, it's a little odd. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dano123 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 I think the whole situation is sad. He is a good guy, just a little different. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboS1ice Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Yes it is a sad situation and was very fond of said member. We choose our own actions and have to live with the consequences good or bad. He was a different person but we all have our quirks. Keep in mind no matter what may seem it was his choice to leave the forum and his choice for his account to be removed. I have never seen a forum with such little influence from the moderators as this one, these guys do a great job of helping this site run smooth mainly by taking spammers off. Since I've been here I've only seen two threads closed off and only one deleted. So a big thanks to Chris, Jason, and rego for doing what they do and letting us be pretty free! #TIACREW Jimbo Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dano123 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Well said Jimbo. This is only the second forum I have participated in so I don't have much experience with moderators, but I haven't seen anything dramatic happen on here. I joined this crew to learn about tools and try to help others from my own experiences and it seems like most members do the same. Everyone is different and just like in real life, there will be some people you don't get along with. Hopefully this doesn't happen on a regular basis going forward. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR99 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 This is the first time in the years I have been a TIA member we had to deal with something this crazy on the forum. We had some other issues with other members but that was more about using the forum for too much self promotion and doing shady shit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Well crap, there's goes my chances to pull shady shit and use the forum for self-promotion... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnarlyCarl Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Well crap, there's goes my chances to pull shady shit and use the forum for self-promotion... Too late you know we love your photos Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 I would like an explination as to why it was deemed necessary to move his thread to the moderator area. That thread stayed for hours and aside from jabs here and there, remained civil enough to not warrant complete bleaching. Thought that was odd when I went to check in the next morning and it was inaccessible. Seemed...drastic, unless I missed something while I was sleeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 15 minutes ago, KnarlyCarl said: Too late you know we love your photos Sure, but that's not really self-promotion, that's just plain showing off. The chat room thread he posted was okay from a general standpoint, but the reason and logic behind it was not. To make a thread asking for the chat room to be moderated, from a guy who was causing most of the static, was silly at best. The only reason why I replied to that thread was to bring some logic to an otherwise illogical situation. Sooner or later a member would have been pushed too far and given him a piece of their mind, and when that happened the wrong member would have gotten chastised for it. His type of personality and the types of issues he had were eventually going to cause more problems than you can know. Trust me folks, I spent enough time studying psychology and psychiatry to know what telltale signs there were. My attempts to help him and be a friend to him through PM fell on deaf ears, his behavior was getting worse day by day. Was it right for me to feed into the issue by posting in that thread? No. But,he more than asked for a response, he basically trolled big-time with that thread, and I saw fit to set him and the forum straight on the issues. He has a lack of basic communication and interpretation skill, and he has the inability to sense the stress and strain he causes others. My perspective is simple, and well-known by now...it's sad yes, but not sad enough to merit all of the discussion that's going on about it. I liked the guy but he was growing more and more hostile towards members, and his personality was getting more and more out of control. I'll miss him, I'll miss his contributions, but I don't believe he's the right fit for this forum. He became a toxi personality and I was on the verge of placing him on the ignore list. I have never in my life done that, even to people who were far worse than him. But, the time was coming and I won't miss that part of him. I suggest it be laid to rest, and we move on. To keep the discussion open only feeds into the issue and keeps it alive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 I don't think anyone had a problem with your post exactly. I think it was more like he was standing at the cliff and threatened to jump, and you pushed him in the middle of his speach, lol. I get his issues, I get your response, I get the others members responses...but I don't get moving the thread to the mod zone without explanation. That sparks more interest to me than anything on the topic, really. Once things were said, it seemed chill enough, people vented and commented and it seemed more or less dead on it's own without moderation or intervention. He was on his way out. Then he was banned. Threads were moved. Seems really suspicious to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Look at it this way...if he had kept going, one of us would have laid into him pretty fierce, and then we'd be the one facing the hand of doom from the mods. You can't just go all half-cocked at a guy, even if he's being a problem. There's ways to do it, and giving him the business on the forum wouldn't be the right ting to do. It was coming though, you could see it through the interactions in the chat. He made a comment in my direction that was just plain wrong, and I didn't let it slide, but I didn't go nuts on him either. Did I rib him once in a while. Hell yes. Did I joke at him and with him? Hell yes. Did it merit his behavior and his responses? Nope. I'm a grown-assed man, I can pretty much do whatever the hell I want. At least I have the brains and balls to either back myself up, or admit I'm an ass and apologize. He was gonna piss someone off, and then it would have been a different situation. My replying in that thread probably helped save one of us that trouble. I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that he was a good guy, he was liked, but that he was getting out of hand. Whether or not we had any interaction with him at all, on any level, he would have sooner or later put himself in the same spot he's in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 7 minutes ago, Kato said: Look at it this way...if he had kept going, one of us would have laid into him pretty fierce, and then we'd be the one facing the hand of doom from the mods. You can't just go all half-cocked at a guy, even if he's being a problem. There's ways to do it, and giving him the business on the forum wouldn't be the right ting to do. It was coming though, you could see it through the interactions in the chat. He made a comment in my direction that was just plain wrong, and I didn't let it slide, but I didn't go nuts on him either. Did I rib him once in a while. Hell yes. Did I joke at him and with him? Hell yes. Did it merit his behavior and his responses? Nope. I'm a grown-assed man, I can pretty much do whatever the hell I want. At least I have the brains and balls to either back myself up, or admit I'm an ass and apologize. He was gonna piss someone off, and then it would have been a different situation. My replying in that thread probably helped save one of us that trouble. I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that he was a good guy, he was liked, but that he was getting out of hand. Whether or not we had any interaction with him at all, on any level, he would have sooner or later put himself in the same spot he's in now. I understand your psychology on the matter. I nailed it with the Dragon metaphor in real time. I thought you did a brilliant job of it actually, your plan was clearly executed to perfection. Do I find it overly aggressive? Yea. But so what? The result to me is kind of inconsequential as this place will go on just the same, just a little slower, and a little less obnoxious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 I don't know about less obnoxious...I'm still here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regopit Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 27 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said: I don't think anyone had a problem with your post exactly. I think it was more like he was standing at the cliff and threatened to jump, and you pushed him in the middle of his speach, lol. I get his issues, I get your response, I get the others members responses...but I don't get moving the thread to the mod zone without explanation. That sparks more interest to me than anything on the topic, really. Once things were said, it seemed chill enough, people vented and commented and it seemed more or less dead on it's own without moderation or intervention. He was on his way out. Then he was banned. Threads were moved. Seems really suspicious to me. Lets just say it add fuel to his fire and the endless stream of PM's and emails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMG Posted May 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 One of my reasons for making this thread, in a round about way, was to point out that it isn't the best tactic to simply wipe out a wall of text, because it might be inconvenient, even also if it were requested by the original author. If it had not been removed, I probably would not have noticed and developed any curiosity about it. Actions along this line can cause further frictions, including between staff and forum members, and magnify issues that would otherwise simply pass along like a twig on the river of time, without any ripples. I threw a stone, and the ripples seem to be spreading again. Please let them pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Just now, regopit said: Lets just say it add fuel to his fire and the endless stream of PM's and emails. That explains the ban, at least. But the thread? You probably wouldn't find me in position to question a management's decision to do what it will with content, but historically on many forums I've been on, hiding content when things like this happens only moves to continue hearsay and speculation on the subject, reasons for his removal, what he said or she said...the gossip goes on with or without the source while adding animosity toward staff. It's better in these circumstances to simply lock the thread, and suspend or ban the member in question, but keeps the facts intact. Now a handful of us know what happened, but everyone else is in the dark. He wasn't trolling, nobody was trolling him, nothing illegal was mentioned, nothing regarding anyone's personal information was posted. Even if that were happening, editing of said posts would be the proper measure of "Forum Staff Etiquette", not deletion, nor moving it to the mod lounge. Censoring content is a slippery slope slathered in KY Jelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 See he's making the same point I am here. JMG is familiar with the same Forum Etiquette as I am. It's universally accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Guys, Tools in Action is privately owned. Nothing suspicious there. That means that if the prerogative of TiA is to moderate a member, ban said member, etc that is always at the discretion of TiA. The rules of the day lie with TiA. There is no TiA Constitution. There is no TiA Congress. It's a private forum. It was eluded to by the unsaid member that this forum is a dictatorship.....well.....yeah. It's a private forum. Although....now that I think on it....TiA is not a form of government and you guys don't have to pay taxes, we don't own any tanks, so......? I guess it really is not. The topic and member in question, needed moderation. Period. As far as behind the scene witchcraft, personal agendas, some world wide conspiracy or whatever, the unsaid former member forced his hand. AGAIN. Let me repeat. AGAIN. This time there was a consequence, but only after he lost his temper. AGAIN. Also to clear the air, that same person chose to go on a huge rant, blasted TiA, made all sorts of crazy statements and then ordered that his profile be deleted to one of the owners. This all happened while we, the moderators, tried to figure out what was going on to cause the huge drama that unfolded. The only action taken was to lock and delete the posting, freeze the unsaid members account with a warning and then talk to the members involved. Then and only then, would a decision be made. This forum is designed for all of us guys and gals to talk about tools, shop talk etc. Blow steam off. Not go on tirades about perceived problems, regardless of the validity. If there is a problem, use the personal messenger. If a member is having a problem with another one, and yes we unfortunately do get the occasional problem, and the pm doesn't work, let a moderator know (believe it or not....we don't use overly aggressive moderation) so we can try to clear things up. If you get ticked off at someone, please. Please. Please don't name call. Don't be mean, don't be disrespectful. Don't make rude comments about somebody's family. Just follow the aforementioned steps. Also, please remember this.... TiA has regular giveaways to members of the forum. This is free to members. There are no dues. This is free. The price of a true, aggressively overly moderated, dictatorship-like forum. It's really quite evil. When something like this happens it is really sad, it is hard on the members, and it is hard on the staff (especially the guys that have been on the forum for a long time and get to know the members). Also, the member in question was well liked. Even by the staff( this one included). I understand and this is a bit of a shock for everyone. But put it in perspective....the moderators here, the owners too, have gotten dozens of emails. Mostly from the same people. This is getting old to say the least. The unsaid member is a good guy. I personally will miss his posts. And yes, it's weird seeing him referenced but his profile is now gone. But.....tomorrow is Sunday. Then the next day is Monday.....and guess what? We've got some great members. I like those guys too. So let's try to get past this, concentrate on the good things and God willing we won't ever have another issue like this again. So.....? How about them new Dewalt tools? I think yellow is way better than red. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, ChrisK said: How about them new Dewalt tools? I think yellow is way better than red. I think you're color blind, the best color is GREEN... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Dammit. Festool Green!!!!!! Dammit dammit dammit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJr. Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 DeWalt for the win! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMG Posted May 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 If he were color blind, the best color might be pink... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kruton Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 No TIA crew for the win! It's awesome to have so many great brands of tools out there that we can even debate which is better...even though Bosch is the greatest! now that I'm getting into Metabo I feel like I'm cheating on my Bosch. Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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