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Makita Brushless Torque Wrench 1050 Newton !


kornomaniac

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link doesn't work for me, but that would certainly improve a weak point in their line! Wonder if that's only its tightening torque (similar to Dewalt) and will have a high nut-busting torque? The leaders currently have ~1600Nm

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Awesome!

It is tightening torque, yeah. 
 

What exactly is nut busting torque? Is it the forces that the nut itself will have to experience from tightening it to the tightening torque? Meaning you should use a nut that can withstand more than that? Or anything else? And how do they measure this?

 

Here is an easier link/picture from the linky:

post-50323-0-13878600-1444727618_thumb.p

post-50323-0-53999200-1444727620_thumb.p

Compared to the milwaukee fuel: 2 inches shorter, 1,6 ibs heavier, 6 % more torque (1/2")/ 4 % more torque (3/4"), and some kind of rubber protection in the front, and a fair bit prettier. :P

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For tightening torque - looks like the 3/4" JUST beats the FUEL, and the 1/2" easily beats the FUEL. Sweet!!!

http://www.milwaukeetools.com.au/power-tools/cordless/m18-fuel/show/m18chiwf34-502c

http://www.milwaukeetools.com.au/power-tools/cordless/m18-fuel/show/m18chiwp12-502c

 

But the HT Wrenches often have a much higher nut-busting (removal) torque. I wonder if the Makita will too?

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"Nut busting" torque is usually measured as what you can torque a bolt to and still break it free with the tool.

 

The tightening torque of this impact is the same as the Milwaukee and Dewalt equivalents.  If it's anything like their impact drivers though I'm hoping it has more energy behind the impacts for driving lags and auger bits.

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Can anyone explain me what nut busting torque is ? I frequently hear this term uses in english video's/ reviews/ forums or in specificcations on the American Milwaukee website for example.

But in belgium i have never ever heard that term being user. All manufacturers just talk about their tightening torque over here.

Really confused about what that nutbusting thing is :D

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We don't have this "nut busting" thingy here in Norway either. And on the torque tests on youtube, with torque meter usually seems to show the tightening torque. Pretty equivalent with the graph from Makita. I.e that it reaches and flatten out after a couple of seconds on the tightening torque.

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"Nut-busting torque" is often quoted, with the usual definition being that the wrench can loosen a nut tightened with the specified amount of torque in some specified time period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_wrench#Effects_of_impact_drive

 

I agree it's a useless measure of torque, but it allows manufacturers to inflate their specs by around 30%.

 

Of course the impact energy is also a significant value and I've never seen that specified by a manufacturer for an impact wrench or driver.

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Marketing bullsh!t at its finest!

I would love to see actual stats on tools, none of this "no load" garbage or nut busting crap.

I never understood how they are allowed to measure torque without load. The ratings are usually for peak torque measured for one second, rather than real world loads over time.

Boggles the mind.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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At least makita doesn't publish nut busting torque. But the more realistic "tightening torque". 
Problem is that a Impact today is about much more than just the torque. Lucikly, at the very least, we got a rough graph over the torque VS time. And with that, you know how quick it would tighten a bolt. But to be sure, best to se a side by side review.

But optimally you also want both the power output and energy (joules) behind each hit. Since, you'd do more than just thighten bolts. The power output could kind of be replaced by either a graph over the RPM (or just RPM under a static load). 
With those measures, you could tell very accurately how it would perform under different kind of stress. 
 

I would love to see actual stats on tools, none of this "no load" garbage or nut busting crap.
I never understood how they are allowed to measure torque without load. The ratings are usually for peak torque measured for one second, rather than real world loads over time.
Boggles the mind.

You can't measure torque without load. If you want to brag about a very high torque, you'd want to measure it on the highest possible load you can get. A completly static load. (Not springy).

Yes, the RPM is measured at no-load, and will fall with rising load. But problem is that there is no universal standard that define what a "normal" load is, and depends completly on the situation and what tool you use.

On drills, perhaps they could all agree to test the RPM at 50 % load of the tool or something. But then again, it would probably be just as good to know the power output. And if you got power (watt), torque, and no-load RPM, you can actually calculate the RPM at your given load. And sometimes the manufactures give some numbers on the power output.

At impact wrenches, the situation is a bit different, since the RPM in itself only has meaning at No-load/near no-load situations. Once you got big enough load, and the spring and hammer/anvil starts turning, the actuall RPM you get out of it, (i.e that the user will see), would be defined by the energy delivered, and how often it hits (IPM). This is very impartant if you want to use a auger or large screws. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_wrench#Effects_of_impact_drive

 

I agree it's a useless measure of torque, but it allows manufacturers to inflate their specs by around 30%.

 

Of course the impact energy is also a significant value and I've never seen that specified by a manufacturer for an impact wrench or driver.

 

Thanks, explained a fair bit

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I still don't get it. That IR article basically validated nut-busting torque as a real thing:

 

“Nut-busting” torque refers to the tool’s ability to remove a bolt that has been tightened down using methods other than the tool itself. For the “nut-busting” torque, a bolt is tightened with a torque wrench calibrated to 1100 ft-lbs, then removed with the tool being tested.

 

If a wrench can remove a bolt torqued by a torque wrench to 1600Nm, but can only tighten a bolt to 1000Nm, isn't that a product feature? Or am I missing something?

 

And how can  the 'nut-busting torque' and 'removal torque' be different?

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I still don't get it. That IR article basically validated nut-busting torque as a real thing:

“Nut-busting” torque refers to the tool’s ability to remove a bolt that has been tightened down using methods other than the tool itself. For the “nut-busting” torque, a bolt is tightened with a torque wrench calibrated to 1100 ft-lbs, then removed with the tool being tested.

If a wrench can remove a bolt torqued by a torque wrench to 1600Nm, but can only tighten a bolt to 1000Nm, isn't that a product feature? Or am I missing something?

And how can the 'nut-busting torque' and 'removal torque' be different?

I think you're exactly right, call it what you want but nut busting or removal torque need to be stated imo. I want detailed specs, if not should I just guess/assume that an impact can remove only what it can fasten.

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 Nut busting torque tests the tools capability to remove a bolt that's been tightened using techniques apart from the tool itself. The problem with this is there’s presently no industry wide standard for testing or posting torque rankings, and variables like bolt size and type, thread conditions, air pressure, CFM, etc affect the outcome of the test. This gives manufactures a way to test tools with deceptive techniques that permit them to boost the marketed torque rating, but those techniques won't give you an accurate portrayal of real working torque. Maybe, you have the ability to get huge number of nut busting torque every now and then, given a particular set of conditions but that is not the real working torque the tool is continuously able to deliver.

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^^^ That is a significant problem, M80.

 

And yet as DarynH says, if a wrench has higher reverse torque than tightening torque I want to know about it, it's a legitimate feature of the tool.

 

Having a high reverse torque than tightening torque makes sense. You wouldn't want a wrench to put bolts in that it couldn't remove, and it also helps with rusted bolts etc...

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Sorry if I'm talking shit, but when I thighten a bolt by hand, as hard as I can, it have always made me wonder why it was easier to remove the bolt.

Could it have something to do with the initial friction, and that you need a fair bit more power to overcome this and turn the actual bolt inn a bit more. (Which would also mean compressing the steel a tiny bit) If this isn't overcome, the bolt will remain stationary, and would not be thightened any more.

But when removing it, the initial frictin i less, since it will try to pull the bolt back and lighten the load.

Or something like that? :P

This could mean that the tool itself isn't delivering more torque in reverse (same RPM).

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Nut busting torque tests the tools capability to remove a bolt that's been tightened using techniques apart from the tool itself. The problem with this is there’s presently no industry wide standard for testing or posting torque rankings, and variables like bolt size and type, thread conditions, air pressure, CFM, etc affect the outcome of the test. This gives manufactures a way to test tools with deceptive techniques that permit them to boost the marketed torque rating, but those techniques won't give you an accurate portrayal of real working torque. Maybe, you have the ability to get huge number of nut busting torque every now and then, given a particular set of conditions but that is not the real working torque the tool is continuously able to deliver.

So the term nut busting isn't marketing bs but the way they get the numbers could be until everything is standardized.

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