crazy_bee Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi everyone this is my first post in this forum. I am currently looking at the market for heavy duty cordless tools. I will be needing a cordless band saw in addition to all the other usual tools. -I've looked at M18 with redlithium, which are quite heavy but well balanced and seem pretty tough. -Makita got a lot of choice in their line, tools are light weight but i dont know about their durability. -Then there is Bosch. They have a nice lightweight bandsaw, and their 36v line seem very powerful, but pretty limited. Milwaukee m28 vs m18 i dont know if its worth the upgrade since they released redlithium. Dewalt 36v seem powerful but limited in choice. I was wondering with the upcoming 20v max. Are the old xrp dewalt still the most well made tools? I mean its an old nicd line vs newer lithium lines from competitor. I know that the drill is probably the best ( dcd970) but what about the other tools? Thats a lot of questions but im sure others like me are burning to get thoses questions answered. There arent much comparison on the net for these tool under hard work. Except for the drills. Thank you for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Welcome to the forum, and thank you for posting. Power Tools are really no different than the truck world. Everyone has their brand, and are loyal to that brand no matter what. Since you posted your question on a DeWALT forum. I think you already know what response your going to get. That being said, I will try to defend why I think that is the case. Keep in mind, that most of my comments are just my personal thoughts. Milwaukee has desperately been trying to re-capture it's brand over the last few years. They have released nothing but junk in my opinion. They use lower grade materials, try to make up for it with clever marketing to get people to buy into their line. Red-Lithium being a perfect example. It is a better battery than their older battery, but it's not really all that great when you compare it to current batteries on the market. Makita, is slightly better than Milwaukee. Makita does a good job when it comes to motor quality, and ergonomics. They are trying to gain market share by being the lowest price tool. Toyota did a similar ploy when the launched the Prius. Sell it below cost to gain market share, then increase the price once it takes hold. I've destroyed a handful of Makita's batteries by simply overworking them for a matter of seconds. They use no safety controls for their drills, and very little in their batteries. Bosch is DeWALT's direct competitor for quality. Bosch does a pretty good job building quality tools. For whatever reason, they never really have gotten a large following. The 20v Max line looks like the current models with electronic upgrades. Your still getting the premium grade materials, but now your getting smarter tools, that are lighter, with better ergonomics, features, and benefits. So everything you loved about DeWALT 18v is still there. Everything you hated about DeWALT 18v has now been improved. *Lighter Tools *Smarter Tools *Better Ergonomics *LED light's with time delay *Belt Hooks *Same build quality *Accessory Holders *Rubber Bumpers *Rohm Chucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingobelle Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I can tell you about the cordless drills. The dcd 970 works with both the nicd battery and the 2.0 A nano phosfate battery wich is a lithium battery. My working colleagues are using makita and one of the plumbers are using milwaukee. A honest answer is that my xrp 960 ( 970 without hammermode) outperform the makitas and the milwaukees. Also, I´ve repaired a lot of makitas for my friends but my dewalts has never ever broken down. In fact, nearly all of theirs makita tolls have broken down. We are talking about 20 battery in 2 years, a numerous of drills that the gearbox have broken down and also some motors fired up and a lot of melted brushholders. So the qaulity of makita seems not very good. ( that´s my opinion, maybee someone else have other experience ) The durability of the milwaukees I do not know so much of but my Dewalts feels a lot stronger. ( again that is my personal opinon ) Dewalts small 12v max drills are with no doubtless the most ergonomics drills out there and the competitions 12v drills feels very unmodern in comparison. The new 20v max tools are like big versions of the 12v tools. My friend bought the new compact drill dcd780 and I have nothing but good to say. I buy and pay for all my tools myself and after many years of hard work I found Dewalt the best purchase for your money. Durability, performance is top and the pricetag is like the other profesionals brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy_bee Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Thank you for the fast reply! One thing i noticed when trying the makita is the buzzing sound when you press the trigger, on both the drill and the reciprocating saw. The milwaukee was much smoother and quieter in operation for both the drill and the saw. I found it difficult to use slower speed on the makita for delicate driving. I will try to test bosh and dewalt this week and report here. Anyone tried the dewalt circular metal cutting saw? With the soon availaible 18v band saw which looks amazing, it might be a winner for me. What about M28 anyone can report on their weight vs power ratio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTDiesel Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I think they are at least in the upper tier of power tools. The only time I've been really disappointed with DeWalt tools was when I bought an 18v XRP combo kit with a Recip and Drill/Hammerdrill. I needed the Recip, but not necessarily the drill but buying the kit wasn't a whole lot more. I already had a DC988 I was using and it was fantastic. I can't remember the model number of the drill that came in the kit but it's about 3 years old. Not long after using the new drill I felt that it was a little weaker, and the chuck on it was a serious downgrade from the one on the 988. No matter how tight I tried to get the darn thing it would often let loose the bit or tip I had in the chuck. It was extremely frustrating, and the ad I had selling the old 988 was quickly withdrawn and I went back to using it. The 988 never once let loose a tip. I'm not sure how DeWalt allowed something like that to go out on the market, as I found many with a similar issue upon surfing the net. Anyway....long story short, it's tough to say they are the best because opinions vary greatly when it comes to these kinds of things. I do feel confident calling them a leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framer Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 i think dewalt is hands down the best when it comes to innovation and new ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjones Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think they are at least in the upper tier of power tools. The only time I've been really disappointed with DeWalt tools was when I bought an 18v XRP combo kit with a Recip and Drill/Hammerdrill. I needed the Recip, but not necessarily the drill but buying the kit wasn't a whole lot more. I already had a DC988 I was using and it was fantastic. I can't remember the model number of the drill that came in the kit but it's about 3 years old. Not long after using the new drill I felt that it was a little weaker, and the chuck on it was a serious downgrade from the one on the 988. No matter how tight I tried to get the darn thing it would often let loose the bit or tip I had in the chuck. It was extremely frustrating, and the ad I had selling the old 988 was quickly withdrawn and I went back to using it. The 988 never once let loose a tip. I'm not sure how DeWalt allowed something like that to go out on the market, as I found many with a similar issue upon surfing the net. Anyway....long story short, it's tough to say they are the best because opinions vary greatly when it comes to these kinds of things. I do feel confident calling them a leader though. There have been a couple of chucks that have proved to be sub par. The Rohm chuck that is used on the current XRP drills, as well as all of the new 20v drills, are hands down the best chucks on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTDiesel Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 That's good to know. I guess I just got one of the sub par ones. Is there a chuck I can replace my crappy one with? Or is it just better to get a new one....which I've been meaning to do anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjones Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 That's good to know. I guess I just got one of the sub par ones. Is there a chuck I can replace my crappy one with? Or is it just better to get a new one....which I've been meaning to do anyway. You should probably be able to go to a different chuck model. Call your closest DeWALT service center and talk to them about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 That's good to know. I guess I just got one of the sub par ones. Is there a chuck I can replace my crappy one with? Or is it just better to get a new one....which I've been meaning to do anyway. Which drill model are you planning on upgrading the chuck on? Looks like the DeWALT has stepped away from using the Rohm self tightening chuck, or at least from what I can tell from the pictures. Looks like the hammerdrill models switched from the Rohm Supra-SK to the Rohm Extra-RV. The Supra-SK was self-tightening, and at times, would self-tightened itself to hard during heavy applications. I personally think moving to the Extra-RV model is a plus. I believe Hilti uses the Extra, and Extra-RV model on some of it's drills as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTDiesel Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 The drill I have is a DC925, and it is a Supra SK. Maybe they called it the SK as an inside joke, ya know...cuz, in my opinion it SucKs.....lol FWIW the 988 has a Jacobs 700 series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjones Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 That's good to know. I guess I just got one of the sub par ones. Is there a chuck I can replace my crappy one with? Or is it just better to get a new one....which I've been meaning to do anyway. Which drill model are you planning on upgrading the chuck on? Looks like the DeWALT has stepped away from using the Rohm self tightening chuck, or at least from what I can tell from the pictures. Looks like the hammerdrill models switched from the Rohm Supra-SK to the Rohm Extra-RV. The Supra-SK was self-tightening, and at times, would self-tightened itself to hard during heavy applications. I personally think moving to the Extra-RV model is a plus. I believe Hilti uses the Extra, and Extra-RV model on some of it's drills as well. You're right, the Rohm Pusher chuck is not on the new 20v MAX tools, but I believe will still be on the DCD950/970 drills. The 20v MAX has the Rohm ratcheting chuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTDiesel Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 So in essence, are the new drills going to be equipped with a chuck that's more like the Jacobs 700 series on older models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Looks like a little more of a robust chuck than the Jacobs. After taking the Virtual Demo it looks like both the DCD985, and DCD980 will have the same Rohm chuck. It is all metal, ratcheting style, with carbide teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golem Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjones Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Not all that surprising, except that the milwaukee was faster, which means the DeWALT was obviously in 2nd gear, not third. I was also surprised that the DeWALT didn't get a few more holes. If the Milwaukee got 18, I would expect the DCD970KL to get around 13 or 14, and the DCD950KA would get around 14 or 15. Do this test again with the 20v! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Very interesting test, I've done several different test's with almost all the major brands. You can get major changes in results just by changing gears. Dewalt being a 3 speed is hard to really do testing against in 2nd and 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golem Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 3 speed = less torque. So it seem already hard to finish hole if they realy use the second gear for dewalt.Is not going to be more easy at 3 speed which 3 speed is less torque.If you see they use torque test application to see which one make more hole.But dont forget that dewalt as the less Ah 2.2 vs 3 Ah for makita. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golem Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 This test suck because you can't see if the batery are full charge which speed they use what size of the bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTDiesel Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm sure that the test was done with fully charged batteries and the same size bit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjones Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 3 speed = less torque. So it seem already hard to finish hole if they realy use the second gear for dewalt.Is not going to be more easy at 3 speed which 3 speed is less torque.If you see they use torque test application to see which one make more hole.But dont forget that dewalt as the less Ah 2.2 vs 3 Ah for makita. You are right in that 3rd gear will have less torque (inverse relationship between speed and torque), but spade bits are made for high speed. You want to use a spade bit in the highest gear that the motor can sustain, which makes the bit work to its maximum efficiency. Not saying that it would have changed anything drastically, just that it would have made the DeWALT get the holes done much faster than any other. As was said, the DeWALT is running between 2.0 and 2.2 amp hour battery, vs the 3.0 in the Milwaukee and Makita. Couple the efficiency of the DeWALT switch, motor, and transmission to a 3amp hour battery, and the test will be very different, especially when in 3rd gear with a spade bit (enter the 20v MAX). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorb8881393434512 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 There are so many other video's out there testing run time and the Dewalt comes out on top (for example the one below). I think Dewaltdude has even made some? I find it odd that the Dewalt only got 10 holes. It seems there are so many factors when determining run time besides Amp Hour. What size bit you are using (some drills perform better using different size bits?), how old the battery is, how old the tool is, lithium or NiCad. Thoughts? http://youtu.be/jKZfkNYxm5E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjones Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 There are so many other video's out there testing run time and the Dewalt comes out on top (for example the one below). I think Dewaltdude has even made some? I find it odd that the Dewalt only got 10 holes. It seems there are so many factors when determining run time besides Amp Hour. What size bit you are using (some drills perform better using different size bits?), how old the battery is, how old the tool is, lithium or NiCad. Thoughts? http://youtu.be/jKZfkNYxm5E Completely agree. Also, what is better, getting the most holes but taking two times as long for each one, or getting your work done faster? At the end of the day, as we all know, you can build a test to get any result you want (not saying this was an unfair test). The point is that the DeWALT DOES get around the same run time as Milwaukee and Makita in nearly all applications, even with the smaller amp hour rating (gas in the tank). This is why I keep saying, wait till we can show some tests with the 20v! We are talking about the same DeWALT efficiency as the drill in the above video, mated to a third more capacity in the "gas tank". Game over Makita and Milwaukee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanxrus Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 http://youtu.be/jKZfkNYxm5E Ummm..... That is my test. I started these test's on "thepowertoolforum" before D.O.G was around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingobelle Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Actually it looks like it is not a normal spadebit but a self driving spadebit. I use them myself and even though the bad picture it look like it is ervin speedgrove6x self driven "spade" bits. The size of the drillbit looks big so I think they do the test in first gear because these kind of "spadebits" take a lot of power from the battery. They require a lot more power from the tool compared to normal spadebits. Not saying that the test is a fake but I know from personal use that makita and the others like milwaukke when comming to the end of the battery the tools start to go very slowly but are still capable of making some extra holes but personaly I think it is better that the battery just shut off when it is time to recharge and change the battery. And one thing that is much more important than the runtime and that is Dewalts superior gearbox compared to the others. Everytime I borrow a makita or something else from my friends I nearly always are missing the 3 speed gearbox. Personaly I do not like the 1500 to 1700 rpm range on the makita second gear. Spadebits love the 2000 rpm range. And smaller selfdriven "spadebits" love the 1250 rpm range and also bigger screws. Only when using large holesaws or big lags I need the first gear on the dewalt end even there the dewalt is in most case 100 rpm faster then the competitors. And with the modern carbide teeth holesaws it is actually no problem using the second gear on the dewalt. Even if the new xr range tools ( 20 v max ) is going to give much more runtime the same problem will ocur with them as on the other brands and that is a weak tool before it is time to recharge instead of full power to the end before charge time. Thats my point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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