What tools did you buy today?

[DR99]

9 hours ago, Bremon said:

Thank God DR. It's easier to be selective with cool new gear when not all of it is better than what you already have 

 

Just did some perusing...I've always been impressed by my Fuel sawzall and it still seems to be the benchmark. No rafter hook is typical Dewalt. No adjustable shoe is mindblowing. It's a feature I use regularly. Blades lasting longer = saving money. 

Yea the really cut some features on what should have been a premium product like the rafter hook and adjustable shoe

[wildroamer]

Those aren't drawbacks, they're features. A rafter hook would potentially get caught on your shirt or pants, creating a safety hazard. Also, it would likely throw the balance of the tool off.

An adjustable shoe would just create another point of access for moisture and debris.

 

Of course, it's possible I'm just trying to rationalize dropping the coin on it...

[pancing]

12 hours ago, DR99 said:

A few instagram tool review guys have done a few flexvolt recip tests and they preferred the M18 fuel Sawzall. It was weird they said the Dewalt felt like it had more power, but the Milwaukee Fuel did more work with the power it had.

 

If you take a look at it from a battery point of view.

Milwaukee uses Samsung cells which are INR These have a notoriously bad VDroop and have a very low recharge life <200 per cell. (I use them for vaping) Although they have a high pulse amperage output they do have a lower sustained amperage and they do show a voltage droop under heavy load IE the frequency on your drill will have different sound less whiny for lack of the technical term. There are loads of testing done by vaping/flashlight nerds out there that proves that the samsung cells have horrid VDroop.

 

Now if you look at the Dewalt batteries, they use sanyo which are panny IMR/Hybrid  these have a Lower pulse amperage but have a very high sustained load amperage and are extremely high quality batteries (Japanese cells vs Korean/Chinese) I've been out of the loop for a while with batteries since I only use Sony Which are in the Makita battery packs.

 

As Far as I know there is no audible or physical Vdroop in my dewalt tools, you can try them yourself, run the batteries down to 1 or 2 bars then grab a fresh one and it should still be at full speed, the motor frequency should not change at full speed.

 

Grab your Milwaukee, metabo, hitachi and try the same test, the power in these tools Dives after 50% because of the heavy voltage droop.

 

Or maybe dewalt just changed their motors and made them bigger and relied on them more than gear ratio.

Its funny the way all companies advertise their power in their tools and batteries but none of them but dewalt actually give you any sort of wattage much less so actual amperage draw on load.

 

Well except maybe metabo

 

[kruton]

Starting to grab more Kreg goodies.

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[KnarlyCarl]

I love the FL12 Todd. Awesome light. Low power is awesome too, nearly as bright but lasts quite a bit longer. I still have to pick a 4.0

I'm going to suggest this to my father in law since he's started on the Bosch 12v tools

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[Bremon]

37 minutes ago, wildroamer said:

Those aren't drawbacks, they're features. A rafter hook would potentially get caught on your shirt or pants, creating a safety hazard. Also, it would likely throw the balance of the tool off.

An adjustable shoe would just create another point of access for moisture and debris.

 

Of course, it's possible I'm just trying to rationalize dropping the coin on it...

LOL you don't have to justify that on this forum. At this point it's like discussing high end sports cars. It gets to the point where you discuss and argue the minutiae and can forget that either way you're using/driving better than the majority of people.  Adjustsble shoe would be tough to go back to after getting used to it though.

 

Pancing; I'm quite certain I've read that M18 get 5000+ recharges. For many guys 200 is a year or less worth of charges. Unless I'm misunderstanding the point you're trying to get across.

[sparky603]

2 hours ago, KnarlyCarl said:

I'm going to suggest this to my father in law since he's started on the Bosch 12v tools

 

If he's into the line already, it's definitely a must-have. I have no other Bosch cordless stuff, but to me it's well worth the hassle of having a 2nd brand of batteries and charger.

[joemontague]

I ordered  flexvolt  sawzall  kit circular  saw kit and the bare tool grinder I also got two free tools I got the dcf897  and the dcd996  and I ordered  the stealth force have really been wanting  to try it out!!!!

[wildroamer]

Stealth force?

[joemontague]

Ridgid  stealth  force  

[Bremon]

That's a huge haul Joe, we expect impressions when you get them in!

[joemontague]

Yeah I can't wait I think they said the flexvolt  ships out the 23rd!!!!  Any one have the ridgid  stealth  force ? I don't  know why I wanted it. It caught my interest  and had to have my first  ridgid  18v everything  else is dewalt  or milwaukee  

[wildroamer]

Interesting, never heard of these!

[pancing]

8 hours ago, Bremon said:

LOL you don't have to justify that on this forum. At this point it's like discussing high end sports cars. It gets to the point where you discuss and argue the minutiae and can forget that either way you're using/driving better than the majority of people.  Adjustsble shoe would be tough to go back to after getting used to it though.

 

Pancing; I'm quite certain I've read that M18 get 5000+ recharges. For many guys 200 is a year or less worth of charges. Unless I'm misunderstanding the point you're trying to get across.

How can they say 5k charges when the cells are rated for 250 to 500 on the spec sheet

Also i cant remember the point i was trying to make 

[Bremon]

I couldn't tell you, but I will repeat that 250-500 is a brutal number of charges because as I previously posted many guys would burn through that number in as little as 1 year and certainly less than 2. The warranty on the batteries is 3 years. That doesn't add up for me. 

[regopit]

Not today but over the last week

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bremon]

Airless sprayers used to be the bane of my existence. Hate them to this day. No denying Graco makes quality stuff though, with a price tag to match. I have more than a little bit of experience with a multitude of their proportioners. 

[pancing]

1 hour ago, Bremon said:

I couldn't tell you, but I will repeat that 250-500 is a brutal number of charges because as I previously posted many guys would burn through that number in as little as 1 year and certainly less than 2. The warranty on the batteries is 3 years. That doesn't add up for me. 

Here are the spec sheets for the samsung 25r that are in the milwaukee 5.0's

https://www.powerstream.com/p/INR18650-25R-datasheet.pdf

This is the upgraded version of the INR25r2

The upgraded version is a better performing battery than the old blue version.

But the life cycle of the cells are at most identical.

but these cycles mean that they have to be completely discharged down from 4.2v to ~3.6 and lower.

so if theres a company stating that their batteries can be recharged more than 5000 times is completely bogus as the cells can only handle a number of discharge-recharge cycles.

now if they're saying "They can be recharged 5000+" times well then technically taking the battery off the charger pulling the trigger for 4 seconds then placing it on the charger is recharging the battery then yes they can state that. But know what I know about Li-Ion they do not last 5000+ full cycles esp if they're depleted consistently past 3.6v

 

[Bremon]

Thanks for the info pancing. I can't find specific literature on the quote I'm talking about but I'm positive it was in the 1000s and almost as sure it was 5000. I clearly remember it being a very impressive number and thinking that cordless tool batteries are in it for the long haul these days. Now I'm not so sure!

[Grumpy MSG]

20 hours ago, Bremon said:

I couldn't tell you, but I will repeat that 250-500 is a brutal number of charges because as I previously posted many guys would burn through that number in as little as 1 year and certainly less than 2. The warranty on the batteries is 3 years. That doesn't add up for me. 

It may not be as brutal as you think, If a contractor goes through one charge per battery per day, that is five cycles a week and at 2 weeks of vacation a year that leaves 50 weeks X 5 cycles for 250 cycles in a year. Some contractors are going to charge them 2 or three times a day, but I don't think that is the norm. Some aren't going to get charged even once a day, so Milwaukee is playing a game of averages. If they are using the less expensive cells and have to replace some batteries they won't worry unless the number gets to high.

As I had explained to me at an auto parts store, they won't lose money on the lifetime brake pads or calipers until they have replaced them 3 times. Most people will never own a car or truck for 3 sets, so it looks great to the purchaser. It might be that they have estimated they will replace 30% of the batteries once and 10% twice and their initial price more than covers the number of warranties needed.

[jeffmcmillan]

Remember its usually not 500 charge cycles and the battery just stops working and you warranty it. The performance slowly decreases and you start to think youre crazy or theres black magic because sometimes a battery dies faster than you expect until finally you number the batteries and pay attention and realize one isn't holding a charge as well but its not really broken so you can't warranty it so you just use it less and eventually it goes out of warranty and later bricks when you forget to charge it cause you never use it. Then the manufacturer increases the warranty length but by then its even older and also out of that warranty.

[zackman914]

Just got my "new" skil worm drive in the mail today. it is the classic HD77 and it is a tank and American made which was a selling point for myself.  This is my first time using a worm drive and it rips right through a 2 x 4.  I am just itching to get to the decking project for the weekend.   

[Hugh Jass]

1 hour ago, zackman914 said:

Just got my "new" skil worm drive in the mail today. it is the classic HD77 and it is a tank and American made which was a selling point for myself.  This is my first time using a worm drive and it rips right through a 2 x 4.  I am just itching to get to the decking project for the weekend.   

 

Worm drives are like the diesels of the saw world. Nothing feels quite like the torque they produce. 

[BMack37]

My first time ordering Wagos, where have these been my whole life?

 

More Knipex, Amazon warehouse:

[pancing]

Got my m12 heated jacket today, the damn thing lasts ages on high with a 4.0 battery. Gonna be comfortable for my trip up north in dec!