Pulled the Trigger... (New Firearms Thread)

[fm2176]

Before I begin this post, let me state that I'm not trying to start any sort of political debate.  Please keep things civil, while I suspect that many people who visit these forums are gun owners (I know quite a few are current or former military and law enforcement), I understand why some people feel differently.  I'm posting here because, frankly, firearms are tools and responsible gun owners seem to inundate the trades and blue collar society in general.  

 

Anyway, last month I bought a revolver I'd been wanting for years.  I posted about it in the following thread but decided to create this thread so as not to further hijack the below one.

Today I bought another revolver: https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/taurus-856.  It was admittedly an impulse buy, but having owned a Model 85 in the '90s and a Model 617 in the early 2000's, I knew that Taurus makes good revolver that offer substantial bang for the buck (pun intended).  The 856 is essentially a slightly larger, six-shot version of the five-shot 85, and my next purchases will, as always, be a few boxes of ammo, good holsters, speed loaders, and speed strips.  

 

I'm nearing 20 years of service as an Army Infantryman.  Like many of my peers I'm a "gun guy", but unlike quite a few, I'm not the "tacticool" sort.  My Beretta 92F was made in 1988 and lacks any sort of rail system or optic, the only semi-auto military-style rifle I have is a Yugoslavian M48/56 SKS, and the most tactical firearm I have is probably the custom Mossberg 590 I bought while Clinton was still in office.  My AR15, FN-FAL, HK91, and MAK-90 are all long gone and I've never owned a short-barreled rifle or suppressor.

 

Now, I won't list every firearm I still own as most will succumb to floodwaters in the near future, but I've grown to appreciate the simple and time-proven types.  Revolvers, slide-action shotguns, and military bolt-action rifles are simply more fun to me these days.  I'll still carry semi-auto pistols, but usually prefer having a .32 as a backup to a .38 or .357.  Glocks have never appealed to me (a bias I'll probably have to get over if I pursue a career in law enforcement), and my mantra has always been to carry with a round chambered and at least two reloads, whether it's 46 rounds of 9mm for my Beretta, 22 rounds of .32 for the Kel-Tec, or 18 rounds of .44 SPL for the Model 29.

 

I spent years foregoing the purchase of new guns, spending a lot of money over the past 5+ years on tools instead, but my final months in the Army will be spent rebuilding my collection.  I'll update this thread as I buy from licensed dealers, since the Form 4473s will be kept on file regardless.  There's something about knowing that you have the equipment to defend yourself and loved ones, but equipment is just part of self-defense.  Training, vigilance, and having the social awareness to avoid risky situations are equally important.  

 

[Eric - TIA]

Looks like an awesome gun.  I am stuck in between.  I like the high tech tactical ones but more to go wrong or get in the way.  When it comes down to it, I am on board, simple is the way to go.  I am not going to give it away, but going to get something cool in a couple of months.  Yes, it's more a long barrel and tactical, but cool in my book.  After that, i want to get a Benelli Shotgun.  However you have me looking more into the revolvers.  There is just something about them that is awesome.  I also want an old west rifle.  The Henry's look nice. 

[fm2176]

The Henry's do look nice, the PX had a Mare's Leg model when I bought the S&W.  I only own the Henry US Survival (aka AR-7).  I do have a Winchester Model 94 in .45 Colt, and had one in .30-30 before it was stolen.  A Ruger Vaquero and Stoeger Coach Gun round out my Cowboy Action guns if I ever decide to get into that scene.

[fm2176]

On 9/29/2021 at 4:05 PM, Eric - TIA said:

Looks like an awesome gun.  I am stuck in between.  I like the high tech tactical ones but more to go wrong or get in the way.  When it comes down to it, I am on board, simple is the way to go.  I am not going to give it away, but going to get something cool in a couple of months.  Yes, it's more a long barrel and tactical, but cool in my book.  After that, i want to get a Benelli Shotgun.  However you have me looking more into the revolvers.  There is just something about them that is awesome.  I also want an old west rifle.  The Henry's look nice. 

The tactical looking firearms are very popular, and when set up properly by a trained and experienced owner, they are very effective at doing what they do.  I'll probably get another AR15 at some point for the same reason so many other veterans do--it's second nature for us to effectively engage a target, reload under stress, and perform immediate action, among other things, with an AR15-style weapon.  After all, we train with them our entire careers and many of us have used them in combat situations overseas.  

 

A few things I've considered as my tastes in guns have evolved are a) historical significance, b) practicality for self and/or home defense, c) cost/trade value, and d) legal considerations.  For example, most of my rifles are military surplus bolt actions, with designs dating from the late-1800s into the 1940s and hence, historically significant if not exceptionally valuable.  For self and home defense I like having a primary pistol or revolver, backup pistol or revolver, and either my police surplus riot gun or the Coach Gun, along with a few reloads for each.  Nothing fancy, and nothing that will over-penetrate.  If I stumble across a really good deal I buy it, such as my $100 M1911, and if someone is willing to make a trade that is mutually beneficial I strongly consider it.  Finally, I look at what is or may be targeted by politicians and media (recent examples include bump stocks and pistol braces) as well as how a prosecutor may use my choice of firearms against me if I ever need to use one in self-defense or if another firearms-related criminal charge is filed (brandishing, etc.  I've seen how skewed the "justice" system is in brandishing and illegally concealed weapons cases and don't want any part of that.  

 

When I received my concealed carry permit years ago and began regularly carrying the Para-Ordnance Tac-Four inside-the-waistband, I changed my wardrobe significantly...shorts/pants a size too big, tucked in undershirt, and loose Hawaiian shirt (the pattern helps to camouflage printing) or long coat.  I bought the Model 19 while shopping for a J-Frame snub-nose and found that my frame can easily conceal a 4" barrel K-Frame.  If and when I carry the N-Frame Model 29, I'll have to find a good holster and clothing combination for it.  As for the far more concealable 856, I'm holster shopping this afternoon and may pick up another speed loader and some speed strips.  

[Eric - TIA]

Yes, I like the historical part of the weapons also.  I did the same when I have my conceal permit.  I went with a M&P Shield only because the M&P was my first gun and feel comfortable with it.  I wanted to go with an inside waistband also but was to lazy to go shipping and get new cloth.  

 

Your right on about the justice system and your right about taking all that into consideration.  Always want to be safe in every aspect if it's self defense or doing the right thing so things don't pile up.

 

[fm2176]

Okay, I guess gun types don't frequent these forums.  

 

But...I bought a Glock 17 today.  It came with three 17 round magazines and the store was out of additional ones (I really wanted to have four mags with one in the chamber for 69 total), so I bought a 33 round mag and the Glock Combat Holster.  Now I just need to find more ammo.  Carried a .45, .38, and .32 this past weekend, and probably going with 9mm, .38, and .44 this weekend.

[Eric - TIA]

No I wish we could get more gun people here.  I have been getting into them and could always use the knowledge of others.  That's awesome about the Glock.  Not sure if it's hard to get ammo by you, but it's a little scarce by me.  I went out to Moab Utah and built two guns.  When they get shipped back here, I will take a picture and upload it.

[fm2176]

I kept a G23 for a friend years ago and convinced myself I didn't like Glocks.  After getting the G17 yesterday and doing dry fire drills, I've reconsidered.  Once my time in the Army is done, I'm considering a couple of law enforcement agencies.  Both issue Glock 17s, so I wanted to have something to train with prior to the Academy (although over 25 years of gun-handling, a degree in Criminal Justice, and 20+ years in the military should give some kind of edge).

 

Ammo is hit or miss.  Fort Belvoir, Quantico Marine Corps Base, and my local gun shop usually have certain calibers in stock, but I've taken to carrying jacketed ball ammunition in lieu of the personal defense hollow points I carried in the '90s to '00s.  

[Eric - TIA]

Yeah, I think you have a ton of training, especially compared to me.  Let me know what you think when you take it to the range.  Just curious.  I have heard that a lot about Glocks but then people try them and love them.

[fm2176]

Being a left-handed person, I'm used to having to work around designs such as the M1911, but the Glock should be intuitive for me (as I usually carry revolvers), given its lack of manual safety.  I can't wait to take this to the range, and may get another before long...maybe the G26 so I can use the G17 mags in a pinch but have a more concealable firearm.

 

Speaking of which, I may get to the courthouse today to submit my concealed carry permit renewal.

[fm2176]

Loaded the mags earlier after buying 100 more rounds of ammo, and contemplating open carry over the weekend.  It's a chore loading the 33 round mag, and it looks ridiculous in the pistol, but it should be a good spare for hotel stays and such, along with the Winchester 1200 Riot gun.  I really like the "BOOM!" of a magnum revolver, but can't argue with the potential of 52 9mm rounds in three mags (counting a chambered round) versus six with two speed loaders.

[Eric - TIA]

Concealed - I am in Illinois and it took us all most 16 months to get my card.  It is a joke by use.  Hopefully your doesn't take too long.

 

Open Carry - Can you open carry because of the state you live in or because of the military and when you are on base?

 

M1911 - Do you like that gun?  Is that issued or did you buy that?

 

Yes, I want to get a revolver.  Just something about them that appeals to me but your right with having 52 rounds compared to 6.

[fm2176]

Virginia state law allows a maximum of 45 days for concealed handgun permit processing.  I've heard that some courts use almost all of that time lately, but my first permit took maybe three weeks.  

 

Virginia allows open carry...I carried from the age of around 18, but I'm honestly not a big fan as I feel it makes me a target.  In the '90s I was often asked to leave businesses and had police respond numerous times for exercising my right to carry.  Besides that hassle, I'm constantly on edge when others are around, you just don't know what someone might do (try to grab your weapon, etc.).

 

My M1911 was purchased for $100 from a fellow Soldier that had to sell his firearms.  Some units have used them since then, but the Beretta M9 replaced the M1911 in 1985 or so, and the Beretta is currently being replaced by the Sig Sauer M17.

 

I'm travelling now, with all three new to me firearms.  The .44 with two speed loaders full of .44 SPL and two speed strips loaded with .44 Magnum; the. 38 with a speed loader and some loose rounds, and the G17 with 84 rounds of 9mm.  Should be covered at the project house in the middle of nowhere this weekend.

[fm2176]

So, the .44 stayed in the room I sleep in while I was at the house, and in the truck when I had to go out.  The .38 was pocket carried most of the time, and the G17 was kept in its holster but mostly carried in my jacket pocket.  Today was a bit nicer, so I open carried the G17 while working, mostly burning brush but also carrying ice shield up the ladder.

[Eric - TIA]

I am in Illinois so no open carry.  I am going to have to visit the range and try some of these you have.  We have one place by us where you can rent different guns to try them out.  Now I just have to find time to get there.

[fm2176]

Open carry is a nice option at times, especially for outdoorsmen, and it sucks that some states don't allow it.  It also sucks that Shall Issue concealed carry permits aren't a nation wide standard.  If you are legally able to possess a firearm and acquire the requisite training, why not issue a permit without requiring proof of need or other nonsense?

 

Renting guns is a good option...I had a range near me that did so (to include automatic weapons), but admittedly I have never rented a firearm.  Selecting a carry handgun is very subjective based on personal needs and preference.  I'm comfortable with a revolver and a couple of speed loaders (got my second Pachmayr for the .38 over the weekend), but it felt natural carrying the full sized G17 over the weekend, which is easily concealable with a long jacket.

[Eric - TIA]

That's funny you say that about a national standard.  I was just talking about that yesterday with a guy.  Don't get me started, I could go on and on, lol.

[fm2176]

In my opinion, the problem is that less gun-friendly states are affected by large urban centers controlling the political agenda of states.  I wont disparage either of the two main political parties here, as this isn't a political site, but suffice to say that while the majority of, say, New York's geographical area is populated by gun owners, the majority of its population live in urban centers (NYC in particular).  I have friends from Upstate New York, and Army buddies who have been stationed at Fort Drum, NY.  Outside of big cities like NYC, Buffalo, and Rochester, most of the state is rural.  As a native Virginian I see the same thing happening.  Travel the I-81 corridor out west, drive 30 minutes or so away from the I-95 and I-66 corridors in Northern Virginia, or get out of the Newport News/Virginia Beach area municipalities, and you're likely to see someone open carrying a pistol, standing on the side of the highway with their shotgun during hunting season, or going about their business while likely carrying a legally concealed handgun.  The new flipper house is located about 30 minutes from Fort Lee and hunters are constantly driving by the house in their annoyingly loud pickups with equally loud mud tires.

 

Guns kill people, though, much like the SUV killed people in Waukesha, and as such responsible gun owners should be regulated by their state governments until, and if, the federal government can further regulate them [sarc off].  Speaking as a potential future cop, the scary thing is that some law enforcement officers know little about gun laws.  Before enlisting, I was perusing a local thrift shop when the off-duty Richmond Sheriff's Deputy working security approached me told me to put my legally carried .357 in my car, telling me he could arrest me as it's illegal to carry a handgun in certain areas.  I just looked it up and the law is still on the books (emphasis added): https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-287.4/

 

"§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock...in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William."

 

In short the Deputy was right, to a degree.  Also, I can't fault him for lacking experience in enforcement of the law, as Richmond and other larger population centers (to include all of those listed in the above section of the Code) have separate police departments, with the Sheriff's Offices being mostly relegated to court security, corrections operations, and serving subpoenas.  My 7-shot Taurus Model 617 did not meet the criteria for an offense, nor have any of the numerous handguns I've owned until the recent Glock purchase (if I wanted to walk around with the 33-round mag in the pistol for some reason).  

 

Next month I might buy an inexpensive but quality AR-15 (I'll have to do some research, but hear decent things about he S&W M&P 15 series).  I have dozens of magazines, can sign for the latest Army-issued optic for demonstration purposes to mate with my prototype night vision system, and have twenty years of experience with the M14A4, M4, and M4A1, not to mention the post-ban Bushmaster I used to own and even the XM177E2 I maintained in an arms room years ago.

[T75R]

Love this thread. Being current law enforcement I’ll get back to you guys on what I own with some pics! 

[fm2176]

On 11/25/2021 at 4:19 PM, T75R said:

Love this thread. Being current law enforcement I’ll get back to you guys on what I own with some pics! 

Sounds great!  I'll upload some pics myself before long.  

 

Speaking of law enforcement I really miss my police surplus S&W Model 19.  I still have the Winchester 1200 Riot that looks like it was issued to a supervisor due to its lack of wear.  I want another Model 19 but am torn between looking for a decent used gun and buying a new production version.  The Model 29 is nice but I need a shoulder holster for daily carry due to the size and weight.

[T75R]

Sig Sauer P226 for my on duty firearm. Very reliable. Can’t leave the station without it lol

[Eric - TIA]

Sweet, I have heard good things about the P226.  I get to complete my paperwork today for the guns I built out in Utah, so once I get them, I will take a picture.

[fm2176]

I've yet to own or even shoot a SIG Sauer, despite currently serving in a position that gives me access to the M17 and M18, which were developed from the P320 to replace the Army's aging M9 (Beretta M92FS) and M11 (SIG Sauer P228) pistols.

 

Virginia State Police issued the P229 from '97-'04, as a gun guy who worked in a dealership where a Trooper would check our state inspection logs monthly, I was curious about that and read back then that they were ordering both .357 SIG and .40 S&W barrels, with the intent to switch barrels (and calibers) as they wore out.  Checking the Wikipedia page, it seems that they stuck with .357 SIG, adopting the P229R in 2004 and the P320 in 2018, both in that caliber.

 

During the 2005 Inaugural events, I chatted with a US Park Police officer who carried an H&K P7, in my opinion an oddity for American LEOs, but for the most part Glock and SIG Sauer seem to have cornered the market on law enforcement service weapons.  While I still need to train with the G17, I will say that the grip angle doesn't bother me as much as it used to, and dry fire drills have proven that the sights align for me almost as instinctively as the 92F or my revolvers.  I do have to consciously think about what I'm carrying, but the muscle memory is developing to where I can tell by the feel of the grip where I need to aim (if that makes sense, I'm not a firearms instructor by any means, but have noticed a tendency to be able to effectively draw and engage targets in a smooth manner).  

 

I've already spoken to the wife about future training if I decide to go into law enforcement.  Jiu-jitsu or another grappling martial art training is a must, and I plan to use my military retirement to help pay for addition self-defense and especially firearms tactics courses.  Twenty years in the Infantry have made me confident that while that I can hold my own on the ground, I need to train away from my go to submissions, which are usually choke holds.  

 

In the end, whether I'm Mr. Home Depot next year or in an Academy, I want to be "that guy" that never has to resort to violence even while being prepared to do so.  If I become a cop I want to be capable of defending myself and others but retire without ever forcibly subduing someone or drawing a weapon outside of training.

[fm2176]

10 hours ago, Eric - TIA said:

Sweet, I have heard good things about the P226.  I get to complete my paperwork today for the guns I built out in Utah, so once I get them, I will take a picture.

 

Sounds good.  I haven't built anything yet, but may eventually do so.  I also want to get into reloading, especially for the .44 MAG.  It would be nice to have a custom load between .44 SPL and .44 MAG, kind of like a +P.

[fm2176]

While in a meeting this morning, I sorted my wallet and saw that it's been 31 days since I bought the G17.  So, off to the Exchange, where I considered adding a G19 or G26 to the collection before realizing how close it is to Christmas.  On to cheaper guns, and an olive green Ruger Wrangler .22 Long Rifle revolver caught my eye at $230.  Tempting, and perhaps next month's purchase, but I wanted to try something a bit more practical for concealed carry.  The Ruger LCP II and S&W Bodyguard both caught my eye, at $380 and $360 respectively.  Almost $200 less than the Gen 5 Glocks ($555) and they are both in .380 ACP, a caliber for which I have ammunition but no longer have firearms to shoot it.  Still, a bit pricey.

 

So I decided to take a gamble with a new (to me) company and shelled out $230 for the SCCY CPX-2.  Reviews are mixed, but I have a number of other handguns to carry should this prove less than reliable.  In fact, I'm already considering a lime green grip module just for the heck of it.  We'll see if this was a good buy or not, but in the late '90s I purchased a pistol from another relatively unproven budget pistol manufacturer located a bit south of SCCYs facility.  The no-frills Kel-Tec P11 is still going strong, and the only issue I've had with the P32 purchased around 2004 is the mainspring breaking after five years of near daily pocket carry.  Let's hope this SCCY proves itself.

 

I did notice (and probably knew but forgot at some point) that Virginia concealed carry permit holders are exempt from the one handgun per 30 days limit.  I can't afford to buy more than one a month, but it's nice to know I won't have to count the days.  The G26 is a definite purchase in the near future, followed perhaps by a .380 and a .40 of some sort.  If and when a S&W Model 19 pops up in the Exchange or for a good price locally, I'll be buying one of those as well.  The Exchange has competitive prices, but the key benefit to shopping there is the lack of sales tax.