What's Your Favorite Cordless Brand (as of 2022)?

[fm2176]

Cordless brands have had ups and downs over the years, with some such as Flex being new to the US market while others like Porter Cable seem to be on life support.  What is your favorite brand right now? 

[Altan]

Metabo with CAS is the most attractive to me in 2022 and they keep adding new brands within the alliance, Rothenberger, Mafell, Lamello, Eibenstock, Edding, Steinel, 32 brands in total, I think they will reach the other brands by 2025. The battery compatibility with other brands is very important for me, not because I want to spend less money on batteries and chargers, but because I always have less space at work and I need to consume my space with care, London is not America and everywhere is dense here, plus another good thing with CAS brands is that a lot of them produce their products in EU, not like DeWALT that almost nothing they make nowadays in developed countries like US, UK or Germany. A few things are still made in Italy though. In that aspect Makita is better than DeWALT I would say, they make a lot of their quality tools in Japan and some good ones in UK, too. Bosch is also trying to make a battery alliance with Fein and others. Festool makes good tools too, but they are slow in making new cordless tools, I can't wait for their cordless router ad planer until I get retired :)))

DeWALT batteries are used for some other brands like Graco, MacTools, Facom, Stanley, Klein Tools, Edilgrappa and others, but Milwaukee does not do that with any other brand. Even Makita batteries are used by other brands. That is why I do not support Milwaukee at all. 

[fm2176]

I added Metabo to the poll but besides your mentioning CAS in various posts I know nothing about the alliance.  It does seem nice that all tools and batteries produced since 2009 are compatible.

 

 

[Altan]

I noticed that also that you Americans know mostly American brands and some specific brands, and both UK and US markets are flooded by Chinese products, I have a feeling EU is a bit better than US and UK. One of the reasons that I keep posting about CAS is to introduce Americans that there is another world of tools and concept in tool sector, which I believe brands like DeWALT, Milwaukee and Makita are not happy to see CAS being introduced to Americans because it will push them to either make their own alliances or come up with new tools to be able to compete with CAS or Bosch battery alliance, Metabo has broken the border of being isolated within its own brand and that is why any brand is welcome to join, But other brands resist to not have battery alliances, the more other brands delay doing this the more brands Metabo will bring to CAS. Soon or late they will do this I believe, Bosch could analyze this properly I think and they have decided to create their own. Metabo HTP has done a good job with making AC battery adapter for their 36V platform, brands will have to work on this also, There was a brand from Mexico I think called Los Gatos making AC battery adapters for Milwaukee, Makita, DeWALT but it seems these brands have digested Los Gatos and I don't think they will allow another Lot Gatos looking brand to appear also, it is clear that all are together and do not want introduce an AC battery adapter! You have forgot Hilti and Festool in your list. I do not consider it as an alliance between SBD brands that DeWALT and Facom or MacTools sharing the same battery, they have not announced it as an alliance with Graco, Klein Tools or others. 

 

[Eric - TIA]

I am a Hilti guy.  Bosch would be up there also.  When I was a Labor for a large construction company, used a variety of tools and Hilti and Bosch never let me down.  They always worked. 

[Altan]

1 hour ago, Eric - TIA said:

I am a Hilti guy.  Bosch would be up there also.  When I was a Labor for a large construction company, used a variety of tools and Hilti and Bosch never let me down.  They always worked. 

I liked Hilti quality before they announced the new line, I don't like the data collecting thingy in tools, also not in anything else.

[Altan]

The problem with DeWALT is they have made only one (let's say two) 120V (2x60V) cordless tool(s) a few years ago, from my point of view that platform is the best platform to work on. because you have the tools as cordless and corded. I would like to see a Toughsystem Vacuum in that platform, Toughsystem Planer Thicknesser (does not need to be in a box as long as it is compatible with that platform), 10" Table Saw, SDS Max Demolition Hammer Breaker, Wet Tile Saw, and others, but as I told previously the brands are not too keen to give this options to the users, recently DeWALT came up with a new cordless 12" Mitre Saw with a single 60V Flexvolt battery and that already shows that they have given up from 120V (2x60V) platform as they don't want to give the option of having cordless/corded tools to us. So I don't hope for any 120V cordless tool anymore.

[fm2176]

I think that major US brands are more interested in the bottom line than in allying themselves with smaller companies.  The Cordless Alliance System seems to be comprised of a number of specialty and/or regional companies anchoring themselves to a major international brand (Metabo).  Call it ignorance; as an American I know little to nothing about European brands.  The concept seems solid and it would be nice if we had something similar over here, but I think the market here is already saturated with minimal opportunity for anything approaching CAS.

 

DeWalt seems to drag its feet on new tools.  I agree that the 120v Max system could (should) be built upon.  They made the 12" SCMS, which I own, and I'd be sorely tempted to outfit my entire shop with FlexVolt 120v tools if given the chance.  The saw already costs substantially more than its corded only siblings, so DeWalt isn't really looking at taking a loss if someone decides to run it on AC power alone.  Make a 10" table saw, tile saw, planer, joiner, drill press, band saw, heck even a lathe, and have a complete FlexVolt bench top tool offering.  If anything like that was released and I needed it, I'd buy a kit if that's all that was available.  Run it with the adapter and use the batteries in other tools, with the justification that I might need to take the tool to a remote site at some point.

 

[Altan]

1 hour ago, fm2176 said:

I think that major US brands are more interested in the bottom line than in allying themselves with smaller companies.  The Cordless Alliance System seems to be comprised of a number of specialty and/or regional companies anchoring themselves to a major international brand (Metabo).  Call it ignorance; as an American I know little to nothing about European brands.  The concept seems solid and it would be nice if we had something similar over here, but I think the market here is already saturated with minimal opportunity for anything approaching CAS.

 

DeWalt seems to drag its feet on new tools.  I agree that the 120v Max system could (should) be built upon.  They made the 12" SCMS, which I own, and I'd be sorely tempted to outfit my entire shop with FlexVolt 120v tools if given the chance.  The saw already costs substantially more than its corded only siblings, so DeWalt isn't really looking at taking a loss if someone decides to run it on AC power alone.  Make a 10" table saw, tile saw, planer, joiner, drill press, band saw, heck even a lathe, and have a complete FlexVolt bench top tool offering.  If anything like that was released and I needed it, I'd buy a kit if that's all that was available.  Run it with the adapter and use the batteries in other tools, with the justification that I might need to take the tool to a remote site at some point.

 

I think the major US brands (also Makita and Milwaukee in a way but not as much as DeWALT) are more interested in the bottom line because they don't want to introduce a full line, At least till now that was the intention but I can not talk about the future and the reason is they think doing the business this way will make us buy more tools, that is why they all have this policy and kind of hidden cooperation with each other. It is something rare that Hilti started to introduce a big range of new line all in one go which they did recently, normally brands do introduce tools slowly and one by one or a few at a time, but not 70 tools at once. Cordless tools batteries are not just used for tools, Makita uses their batteries for cordless coffee maker, kettle, warmer/cooler and TV as well. Bosch is an European brand, Festool also is an European rand, also Fein, Hilti, Mafell, Rems, Rothenberger and a lot of others and these are known by Americans, I would not say all brands within CAS are well known though. The only way that will push American brands to go for something similar to CAS is that CAS has to be introduced to US market properly and American brands should feel the fear of a proper competitor otherwise they will not go for this. 

 

The problem with SBD is that they did copy a lot of tools from Porter Cable for DeWALT like 1/4" router from DeWALT for Craftsman like a few drills, but why not the cordless tile saw from Craftsman or Porter Cable for DeWALT? What is the logic in this?!!! The logic is to not give a full range in any of their brands with this thought that they will make us wait for them for ages to come up with the tools we want. 

[fm2176]

On 3/29/2022 at 4:27 PM, Altan said:

I think the major US brands (also Makita and Milwaukee in a way but not as much as DeWALT) are more interested in the bottom line because they don't want to introduce a full line, At least till now that was the intention but I can not talk about the future and the reason is they think doing the business this way will make us buy more tools, that is why they all have this policy and kind of hidden cooperation with each other. It is something rare that Hilti started to introduce a big range of new line all in one go which they did recently, normally brands do introduce tools slowly and one by one or a few at a time, but not 70 tools at once. Cordless tools batteries are not just used for tools, Makita uses their batteries for cordless coffee maker, kettle, warmer/cooler and TV as well. Bosch is an European brand, Festool also is an European rand, also Fein, Hilti, Mafell, Rems, Rothenberger and a lot of others and these are known by Americans, I would not say all brands within CAS are well known though. The only way that will push American brands to go for something similar to CAS is that CAS has to be introduced to US market properly and American brands should feel the fear of a proper competitor otherwise they will not go for this. 

 

The problem with SBD is that they did copy a lot of tools from Porter Cable for DeWALT like 1/4" router from DeWALT for Craftsman like a few drills, but why not the cordless tile saw from Craftsman or Porter Cable for DeWALT? What is the logic in this?!!! The logic is to not give a full range in any of their brands with this thought that they will make us wait for them for ages to come up with the tools we want. 

 

This is entirely my opinion, based off of observation and experience, but I think many Gen-X Americans simply see DeWalt as the "go-to" brand thanks to Black & Decker's marketing of them as top tier professional tools in the 1990s.  A little digression here, but I was surprised to read that Black & Decker only merged with Stanley Works twelve years ago.  We throw the SBD acronym around so much that I forgot the company as it currently exists hasn't been around forever.  While Black & Decker acquired DeWalt in 1960, they didn't acquire Porter Cable until 2004, so I have a couple of theories about their current brand proliferation issues.

 

My first experience with DeWalt was as a gutter installer in the mid-'90s.  At the time UniVolt was being touted as the next big thing, and we had both B&D and DeWalt Univolt drills and batteries.  There was a Service Center downtown and we'd take our tools there if they had an issue, unlike now where a lot of people just buy a new drill if the warranty has expired.  The framing crew I worked with used some DeWalt tools, but mostly used pneumatic nailers (I forget the brand).  Later, my older brother invested in a big DeWalt 18v kit for his window installation business.  He swore by the brand, as did many of his friends, and Yellow was the dominant color on most jobsites I went on.  Even the US Army seems to have chosen DeWalt over other brands, as their tools are the only cordless option I recall seeing in supply catalogs for unit purchases.

 

All that said, SBD is missing the mark by releasing tools under other brands while denying DeWalt owners similar products.  I understand why Craftsman borrows heavily from Dewalt and other brands, as SBD wanted to hit the ground running after their acquisition, but this only muddies the water.  To use your example, Porter Cable released the tile saw for their relatively unpopular 20v Max system in early 2018.  Less than two years later, Craftsman got a V20 version.  Meanwhile, four years later, DeWalt still doesn't have one.  I can run my Ryobi off the Power Station, but that's still a compromise.  Between 20v Max and FlexVolt, DeWalt could and should release every type of tool other brands in the SBD portfolio offer.  While Black+Decker seemed to be solidly behind DeWalt in the '90s through '00s, Stanley Black & Decker was formed right as Li-Ion technology started taking off, with both DeWalt and Porter Cable releasing the 20v Max systems that would eventually entirely supplant the old Ni-Cad (and later Li-Ion) 18v platforms.  When they acquired Craftsman, they only added another "professional" brand to the mix, diluting the DeWalt name by a little while almost killing Porter Cable.

 

So, looking at the history and timeline, I think SBD got its priorities skewed in the 2010's by having so many brands simultaneously.  Porter Cable's 18v lineup was pretty nice but seems to have been a bit short-lived (I can't find reference to when it was released, but it was being pushed heavily until 2012 or so).  PC 20v Max was released in 2013 and alienated those like me who'd recently invested in a seemingly similar system (Li-Ion, slide-on battery packs) that couldn't use the new batteries.  Still, PC was considered the second tier cordless platform behind DeWalt.  Five years later, Craftsman V20 was released, effectively relegating PC to third wheel status.  While PC had previously received some unique products like the tile saw, those went to Craftsman, which is marketed as just below--and in some cases the equivalent of--DeWalt.  DeWalt, being well established already, seems to have gotten the short end of the stick when it came to certain tools.  Let's not forget either that SBD also made both the Stanley Fatmax and Bostitch cordless systems for Walmart and perhaps other retailers, further clouding the SBD brand hierarchy. 

 

I've seen the various Makita comfort products and think they're a decent concept.  Why not maximize the use of your batteries?  Over here, for better or worse, Ryobi seems to be the brand that offers the most flexibility in its product line.  Unfortunately, a lot of their stuff seems to have limited-time in-store availability, but they are innovative.  I have some of the clamp fans, the Devour floor sweeper, and the pricy Score speaker system (originally $200 for the hub and one satellite speaker, with additional speakers $100 each, but 75% off thanks to clearance policies), along with the 150w inverter.  Besides those, they have/had a cooling cooler, underwater pool vacuum, floating pool light/speaker, and quite a few other non-tool One+ products.  

[Altan]

4 hours ago, fm2176 said:

 

This is entirely my opinion, based off of observation and experience, but I think many Gen-X Americans simply see DeWalt as the "go-to" brand thanks to Black & Decker's marketing of them as top tier professional tools in the 1990s.  A little digression here, but I was surprised to read that Black & Decker only merged with Stanley Works twelve years ago.  We throw the SBD acronym around so much that I forgot the company as it currently exists hasn't been around forever.  While Black & Decker acquired DeWalt in 1960, they didn't acquire Porter Cable until 2004, so I have a couple of theories about their current brand proliferation issues.

 

My first experience with DeWalt was as a gutter installer in the mid-'90s.  At the time UniVolt was being touted as the next big thing, and we had both B&D and DeWalt Univolt drills and batteries.  There was a Service Center downtown and we'd take our tools there if they had an issue, unlike now where a lot of people just buy a new drill if the warranty has expired.  The framing crew I worked with used some DeWalt tools, but mostly used pneumatic nailers (I forget the brand).  Later, my older brother invested in a big DeWalt 18v kit for his window installation business.  He swore by the brand, as did many of his friends, and Yellow was the dominant color on most jobsites I went on.  Even the US Army seems to have chosen DeWalt over other brands, as their tools are the only cordless option I recall seeing in supply catalogs for unit purchases.

 

All that said, SBD is missing the mark by releasing tools under other brands while denying DeWalt owners similar products.  I understand why Craftsman borrows heavily from Dewalt and other brands, as SBD wanted to hit the ground running after their acquisition, but this only muddies the water.  To use your example, Porter Cable released the tile saw for their relatively unpopular 20v Max system in early 2018.  Less than two years later, Craftsman got a V20 version.  Meanwhile, four years later, DeWalt still doesn't have one.  I can run my Ryobi off the Power Station, but that's still a compromise.  Between 20v Max and FlexVolt, DeWalt could and should release every type of tool other brands in the SBD portfolio offer.  While Black+Decker seemed to be solidly behind DeWalt in the '90s through '00s, Stanley Black & Decker was formed right as Li-Ion technology started taking off, with both DeWalt and Porter Cable releasing the 20v Max systems that would eventually entirely supplant the old Ni-Cad (and later Li-Ion) 18v platforms.  When they acquired Craftsman, they only added another "professional" brand to the mix, diluting the DeWalt name by a little while almost killing Porter Cable.

 

So, looking at the history and timeline, I think SBD got its priorities skewed in the 2010's by having so many brands simultaneously.  Porter Cable's 18v lineup was pretty nice but seems to have been a bit short-lived (I can't find reference to when it was released, but it was being pushed heavily until 2012 or so).  PC 20v Max was released in 2013 and alienated those like me who'd recently invested in a seemingly similar system (Li-Ion, slide-on battery packs) that couldn't use the new batteries.  Still, PC was considered the second tier cordless platform behind DeWalt.  Five years later, Craftsman V20 was released, effectively relegating PC to third wheel status.  While PC had previously received some unique products like the tile saw, those went to Craftsman, which is marketed as just below--and in some cases the equivalent of--DeWalt.  DeWalt, being well established already, seems to have gotten the short end of the stick when it came to certain tools.  Let's not forget either that SBD also made both the Stanley Fatmax and Bostitch cordless systems for Walmart and perhaps other retailers, further clouding the SBD brand hierarchy. 

 

I've seen the various Makita comfort products and think they're a decent concept.  Why not maximize the use of your batteries?  Over here, for better or worse, Ryobi seems to be the brand that offers the most flexibility in its product line.  Unfortunately, a lot of their stuff seems to have limited-time in-store availability, but they are innovative.  I have some of the clamp fans, the Devour floor sweeper, and the pricy Score speaker system (originally $200 for the hub and one satellite speaker, with additional speakers $100 each, but 75% off thanks to clearance policies), along with the 150w inverter.  Besides those, they have/had a cooling cooler, underwater pool vacuum, floating pool light/speaker, and quite a few other non-tool One+ products.  

DeWALT acquired a German brand called Elu and most of DeWALT tools were absolute copy of the tools from Elu at that time. Those days because of Elu DeWALT tools were quality, but now quality has gone down a lot. 

[Jronman]

On 3/28/2022 at 4:09 PM, Altan said:

but Milwaukee does not do that with any other brand. Even Makita batteries are used by other brands. That is why I do not support Milwaukee at all. 

Thats not true. Milwaukee batteries are used in other companies tools. I haven't seen any in person but I have seen the tools online.

[Altan]

1 hour ago, Jronman said:

Thats not true. Milwaukee batteries are used in other companies tools. I haven't seen any in person but I have seen the tools online.

Yes, I think I have seen a company making cordless screeding tools working with Milwaukee batteries, but they make the same tool working with DeWALT and Makita batteries, too. So that does not count too much. And if there are any serious brands making tools using Mliwaukke batteries I would like you to introduce it to us, a name or a link at least. Thanks

[fyrfytr998]

This is a weird topic for me. While I am on the Craftsman platform. I’m not on it, because it’s my first choice. It was basically the brand that offered me the most bang for my budget dollar since Porter Cable was being down graded and phased out by SBD. And I’m too committed to V20 to make another switch without the wife throwing a fit, since I’m still essentially a hobbyist wood worker.

 

My vote goes to Makita. It’s a brand that can go toe to toe with Milwaukee. It’s a brand not beholden to a parent company making other versions of their tools. It’s a brand with a very strong history. I am also a fan of the Flex and Kobalt lines, but they don’t have the history Makita does……..yet.

 

So once I start to make some money doing wood work. I do plan to switch platforms once again. And it will more than likely be into the XGT 40v line. Unless I get really bougie and go Festool, lol.

[fm2176]

On 4/2/2022 at 12:42 AM, fyrfytr998 said:

This is a weird topic for me. While I am on the Craftsman platform. I’m not on it, because it’s my first choice. It was basically the brand that offered me the most bang for my budget dollar since Porter Cable was being down graded and phased out by SBD. And I’m too committed to V20 to make another switch without the wife throwing a fit, since I’m still essentially a hobbyist wood worker.

 

My vote goes to Makita. It’s a brand that can go toe to toe with Milwaukee. It’s a brand not beholden to a parent company making other versions of their tools. It’s a brand with a very strong history. I am also a fan of the Flex and Kobalt lines, but they don’t have the history Makita does……..yet.

 

So once I start to make some money doing wood work. I do plan to switch platforms once again. And it will more than likely be into the XGT 40v line. Unless I get really bougie and go Festool, lol.

 

I haven't used any of the V20 tools, but given that so many of them borrowed from existing DeWalt and Port Cable products, I think Craftsman is a decent choice for the hobbyist.  I sometimes compare them to Ryobi but a more apt comparison might be to Ridgid.

[fyrfytr998]

5 hours ago, fm2176 said:

 

I haven't used any of the V20 tools, but given that so many of them borrowed from existing DeWalt and Port Cable products, I think Craftsman is a decent choice for the hobbyist.  I sometimes compare them to Ryobi but a more apt comparison might be to Ridgid.

I would put Ridgid and Kobalt in the same wheelhouse. Ryobi is it’s own monster at this point, and possibly king of the DIY/Prosumer category on sheer strength of offerings. I bet it’s insulting to them to even say Craftsman is their competition, lol.

 

While the Craftsman brushless tools I chose that were direct DeWalt clones have worked marvelously for me. The brushed Porter Cable and ODM models are trash by comparison. But it’s this wider selection of mediocre tools that keep Kobalt and SKIL from being the better budget selections in Lowes. And IMO, Craftsman wouldn’t be featured as prominently as they are if SBD didn’t have DeWalt as leverage against Lowes. Flex, Kobalt, and SKIL just doesn’t have the consumer base the old black and yellow does for Lowes to tell them to go pound sand.

 

Like I said, it was super easy to build my collection when Craftsman gave you a free tool with a battery purchase. If Kobalt had done the same thing at the time I needed these tools I’d be backing Kobalt.

 

I’ll attach an image of the final spread sheet results Jeff at Den of Tools made for all the major DIY brands. His factors were number of basic tools, number of specialty DIY tools, availability, cost, brushless models, etc. I doubt Craftsman would be as high as they are without all their clones from other brands. Ryobi and DeWalt are pretty much neck and neck.

 

DISCLAIMER: THIS LIST FACTORS AFFORDABILITY. ALL YOU MILWAUKEE FAN BOYS SETTLE DOWN. WE KNOW YOU GUYS ARE THE BESTEST QUALITY.

 

 

Here’s the link if you guys want to see it for yourselves. Go to his YT channel if you want to see how he came up with the criteria.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZxahpjbIQhS5s3dk63q1KoagUdruBPrSImdVPWAC4c4/edit#gid=0

[fm2176]

That's quite the spreadsheet, and seems to be based on a decent algorithm.  I haven't watched any of Jeff's newer content, for some reason his posts pop up in my YouTube feed almost daily but his videos haven't.  

 

Ryobi is in a class of its own.  I've seen Ryobi tools on jobsites and my neighbor, who owns an electrical contracting business, owns a One+ drill that he swears by.  I own a lot of Ryobi, but not too many core tools.  I got the jigsaw during Ryobi Days last year (my DeWalt jigsaw was lent out two years ago...I should probably contact the guy to get it and my router table back before I move) and picked up a Special Buy impact driver that was on clearance, but otherwise mostly own Ryobi's pretty decent non-tools.  No other brand offers the breadth of products Ryobi does, they're literally one of the coolest brands out there (really, I think they offer the largest lineup of cordless and hybrid fans).

 

"Buy This, Get That" type deals are hard to pass on if you are in the market.  I usually pick up something during Ryobi Days each year as getting two 4Ah batteries, a charger, and a free tool for $99 (the usual deal) is about as good as it gets these days.  Of course, I've picked up plenty of Milwaukee M12 tools and batteries during their promos, and my sole 20v Max XR 6Ah battery was free when I bought my first OMT.  

 

 

[fyrfytr998]

17 hours ago, fm2176 said:

That's quite the spreadsheet, and seems to be based on a decent algorithm.  I haven't watched any of Jeff's newer content, for some reason his posts pop up in my YouTube feed almost daily but his videos haven't.  

 

Ryobi is in a class of its own.  I've seen Ryobi tools on jobsites and my neighbor, who owns an electrical contracting business, owns a One+ drill that he swears by.  I own a lot of Ryobi, but not too many core tools.  I got the jigsaw during Ryobi Days last year (my DeWalt jigsaw was lent out two years ago...I should probably contact the guy to get it and my router table back before I move) and picked up a Special Buy impact driver that was on clearance, but otherwise mostly own Ryobi's pretty decent non-tools.  No other brand offers the breadth of products Ryobi does, they're literally one of the coolest brands out there (really, I think they offer the largest lineup of cordless and hybrid fans).

 

"Buy This, Get That" type deals are hard to pass on if you are in the market.  I usually pick up something during Ryobi Days each year as getting two 4Ah batteries, a charger, and a free tool for $99 (the usual deal) is about as good as it gets these days.  Of course, I've picked up plenty of Milwaukee M12 tools and batteries during their promos, and my sole 20v Max XR 6Ah battery was free when I bought my first OMT.  

 

 

I agree. He used a decent algorithm to compute these score and even factored in a “X Factor” score for folks to give their own input on the tests. I actually went through the list on a day off from work, and found a couple discrepancies on the tool offerings, but nothing game changing.